Clarification of Building Regulations for a porch?

wookie6

Hi,

I was wondering if someone could clarify the building regulations for a new porch. I am comfortable I don't need planning permission for the porch, however I am specifically wishing to know whether I need to retain the door (previously the front door to the house) between the new porch and the next room?

I could replace the previous front door with an internal door, however I would prefer to leave the door frame in place with no door as its nicer as an open area, however I would like to know if this is permitted with respect to building regulations.

Looking at:

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/46/porches/2

It states:

the front entrance door between the existing house and the new porch must remain in place

Does this mean the physical door needs to remain in place or can I just leave the frame in place?

If it does mean the physical door and I don't want to have a door, what would I need to do to get permission for this and how straight forward would this be?

McKneff

It means the external door you have there now must remain there.
Or replaced by a new proper external door if its dropping to bits.

Are you sure you dont need planning permission.
In our area, the footprint of not requiring planning permission was 2 square yards, which taking into account a double skinned wall would leave us with a tiny space inside the porch,
ie, an outside measure ment of 6 foot by 3 foot, not worth the bother .

Doozergirl

The guidance is crystal clear. Building control
Approval is not required if you leave the door in place. It remain an outbuilding.

If you want to remove the door then apply for approval. You will need proper foundations and insulation etc, but that's no bad thing.

We use an approved inspector and in very small spaces one can get away with not having a double skin of bricks if using a nice amount of solid insulation.

wookie6

Thanks for the responses, this helps.

McKneff - So the external door has to be replaced with another external door, it cannot be replaced with an internal door despite this frame now being internal to the house?

Also where did you get an excess of 2 square yards area needing planning permission from? Looking at https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/miniguides/porches/porches.pdf it says

Ground Area of the Porch, Measured Externally, not to exceed 3 square meters

(just over 32 square feet), which is a lot more than 6 foot by 3 foot (18 square meters).

Doozergirl - Do you still need apply for approval if you replace the door with another external door (i.e. due to the existing door being past its best)?

Doozergirl

You can replace the door with another external quality door without notifying anyone. Fact is, you're not going to want to remove the door into an unheated space that doesn't meet regulations. Porches, where a quality door still divides them from a house, are counted as outbuildings, not extensions.

As soon as you remove the door and describe it as "inside", you've built an extension. You've caused, by the removal of the door, a demand on the heating system of your house and it therefore needs to be thermally efficient and dry and it needs to comply as such.

re: 3 square metres. If measured externally, once you remove the area taken up by the walls, it's going to take up quite a bit less space internally. Perhaps there's some confusion over internal/external expectations.

ronan01

Building a porch to any external door of your house is a permitted development, you do not require planning permission for that, the ground floor area measured externally should not exceed 3 square metres

Baxter100

So what happens in the circumstance where a porch has been built and the internal external door retained, but then 10 years down the line a new owner decides to replace the internal external door with a normal internal door?

Also is there a clear definition of what constitutes an 'external quality door'? Size, locking, material etc?

Doozergirl

Baxter100 wrote: »

So what happens in the circumstance where a porch has been built and the internal external door retained, but then 10 years down the line a new owner decides to replace the internal external door with a normal internal door?

Also is there a clear definition of what constitutes an 'external quality door'? Size, locking, material etc?

The locking isn't an issue, nor is size. If you go to any joiner or DIY Shed and ask for an internal or external door, you're going to be sold different doors. There's no question what is internal and what is external.

Building control is there so that we have structurally safe, warm homes to live in. We should all be happy to have habitable spaces that are like that. Building regulations should be embraced as a minimum standard for homes, not something to be avoided.

If you want to put radiators in a porch or have it open to the house, it is an extension of the habitable space and so we should be thinking carefully about the longevity of the building and keeping the heat in. If it is just somewhere to protect the main house from draughts and keep the rain off us, then it might be considered less important and more temporary. If I were building a porch, I'd be giving it proper foundations, regardless. A common trait of old bay windows and porches is that they start to separate from the house.

If you feel that the door keeps the cold out, then it's probably enough. No one is going to come knocking.

Furts

Baxter100 wrote: »

So what happens in the circumstance where a porch has been built and the internal external door retained, but then 10 years down the line a new owner decides to replace the internal external door with a normal internal door?

Also is there a clear definition of what constitutes an 'external quality door'? Size, locking, material etc?

Pragmatic answer is nobody knows, and nobody cares, if owners are foolish enough to evade Regulations. The Regulations exist for good reasons, just like speed limits do. That does not mean everyone follows them, nor everyone will get caught if they do not. Councils will not be prosecuting home owners because they have more important demands on their time.

When the time comes to sell up then due diligence kicks in and prospective purchasers spot where owners have been bodging and evading on porch conversions and other areas.

An external door should be a minimum 44mm thick - one easy way to check matters when purchasing a home with a "porch conversion".

macman

Are you in a Conservation Area, or is it a listed building?

dunroving

Furts wrote: »

Pragmatic answer is nobody knows, and nobody cares, if owners are foolish enough to evade Regulations. The Regulations exist for good reasons, just like speed limits do. That does not mean everyone follows them, nor everyone will get caught if they do not. Councils will not be prosecuting home owners because they have more important demands on their time.

When the time comes to sell up then due diligence kicks in and prospective purchasers spot where owners have been bodging and evading on porch conversions and other areas.

An external door should be a minimum 44mm thick - one easy way to check matters when purchasing a home with a "porch conversion".

I've seen the latter stated several times on this forum, but it doesn't always apply. Some jobsworths at some councils will pursue requirements for retrospective building warrants.

Which adds two reasons for labelling such homeowners as foolish - sidetracking regulations that are there for reasons of safety, etc., and opening themselves up (or subsequent owners) to subsequent grief from the local authority.