Renting.. Not allowed in the loft!!

theartfullodger

In response to my earlier post

As you rent only part of the place then the landlord is liable for the council tax.
Ask him for what you have paid so far & instruct council it is landlord's responsibility from now on

a reply came...

foxy-stoat wrote: »

lol..........

You are welcome..

In case anyone is wondering why, this is due to the place being a HMO for council tax purposes - different definition to other HMO regulations

see this solicitor here..
https://www.anthonygold.co.uk/latest/blog/i-landlord-house-multiple-occupation-i-liable-pay-council-tax/

and the regulations, being The Council Tax (Liability for Owners) Regulations 1992 s2

Houses in multiple occupation, etc
Class C a dwelling inhabited by persons who do not constitute a single household, each of whom either!!!8211;


(a)is a tenant of, or has a licence to occupy, part only of the dwelling; or


(b)has a licence to occupy but is not liable (whether alone or jointly with other persons) to pay rent or a licence fee in respect of the dwelling as a whole.

CIS

westernpromise wrote: »

Is council tax due on a subdivision of a property that is not habitable?

Depends on what exactly you mean by a subdivision. An attic is part of the property whether it is habitable or not for council tax purposes.

ProDave

We are letting out our former home, while we finish building our new one. The loft space and the garage are excluded in the let (and the rental price reduced accordingly) because both are being used to store our belongings until the new house is ready.

That doesn't mean the tenant can't go into the loft if he has need to, just that there is no more room up there for him to store any of his own stuff.

theartfullodger

ProDave wrote: »

We are letting out our former home, while we finish building our new one. The loft space and the garage are excluded in the let (and the rental price reduced accordingly) because both are being used to store our belongings until the new house is ready.

That doesn't mean the tenant can't go into the loft if he has need to, just that there is no more room up there for him to store any of his own stuff.

So you are liable for the council tax

ADaffodil184

So, as I am not allowed into the loft, at all, not even for storage, are you saying I'm not liable for the council tax either?!

I mean, I don't want to rock the boat, and my landlord is lovely, but worth knowing perhaps when rent increase conversations crop up at the end of the AST?

westernpromise

That's what's being suggested in post 20, it seems.

I've not had to deal with this, but TBH I am a bit baffled as to how the council is going to determine a council tax liability for an attic. In your shoes I'd reach out to the local council and ask.

It may be they say that this clause makes the flat an HMO, and therefore some % of the CT applies to it. But the implication of that is surely that the property must in all other respects qualify as an HMO as well. By the sound of it, it doesn't - there's only your household, fewer than 3 people, I'm guessing the kitchen couldn't be shared with any hypothetical attic tenant, etc.

I've also never heard of a space that is typically reachable only by a pull-down ladder counting as part of a house, either. If you have a 3-bed house with a 4th bedroom up a ladder in the attic you are not AFAIK allowed to offer it for sale as a 4-bed, nor offer the attic "room" as a let.

need_an_answer

Is there anyone who has a definitive link to the CT wording on this?

I've queried this with my agent this morning and they know nothing about any such ruling.

I know some agents just tell you what you want to hear but mine is quite clued up on matters letting.


I have a property with a locked loft its not accessible via an attached loft ladder,not boarded out and IMO not habitable or indeed suitable for storage or easy movement around.

I put a lock on it simply because its an area that I would rather not have a tenant walking on joists with the potential of slipping and putting a foot through a ceiling.

Had tenants in the property over the past few years and none have ever questioned the locked loft hatch which is also quite small and anyone over a certain size probably wouldn't be able to get in,its more of a hatch that people like surveyors would put their head up through and then retract back!

buggy_boy

How old is the property? I know some places built around the 50's/60's used very small ceiling supports where you can't even walk on them, usually you have a few planks and you have to span several supports with the plank to be able to safely walk on it...

The issue arises when these days you have so much insulation that you can't see the supports...

I would ask the question to the landlord, just phrase it as obviously you won't breach the tenancy by going up there but were just curious as to why you are not allowed in the loft...

If they are storing stuff then there might be a case to answer regarding council tax however if it is for your own health and safety then probably not.

ADaffodil184

Thanks all - it seems a bit odd that my just barring use of the loft I'd not be liable for full CT to be honest. I don't think I will question it, I don't want them to think I'm a trouble maker!

It's an old cottage (around 200 years I believe), and well built. I guess if they are storing things I'll soon find out of they want to access them!