*EDF is advising customers to pay more. . . because it will cost less. Oh really???*

hybernia

My dislike of the privatized energy industry is deeply ingrained, though I try not to let prejudice get in the way. I'm told that the regulator has made the suppliers clean up their acts, to the point that nowadays they must communicate clearly and accurately with their customers. My present dual fuel supplier is EDF. It has today communicated clearly and accurately to me the following:

(1) Present tariff, Blue+Price Protection to October 31st 2018, paid by monthly Direct Debit. Exit fees: none.
Electricity: 13.46p per kWh, daily standing charge: 18.90p. Yearly personal projection: £697.37.
Gas: 2.652p per kWh, daily standing charge: 26.25p. Yearly personal projection: £974.18
Total, yearly personal projection: £1,671.55.


(2) Recommended tariff: Easy Online to August 31st 2019, paid by monthly Direct Debit. Exit fees: £30 electricity, £30 gas.
Electricity: 16.20p per kWh, daily standing charge: 18.90p. Yearly personal projection: £683.92.
Gas: 3.406 per kWh, daily standing charge, 26.25p. Yearly personal projection: £943.22.
Total, yearly personal projection: £1,627.24

Says EDF: 'By switching to Easy Online August 2019 your annual saving will be £44.31p.'

That's pretty good, yes? At a time when all energy prices are being hiked, here's EDF assuring me -- and doubtless 1,000s of other EDF customers -- that on the basis of their projected annual spends, genuine savings are now to be made. But, but, but . . .


I am mystified as to how it is that though my electricity unit cost would increase from 13.46p per kWh to 16.20p per kWh, and my gas unit cost increase from 2.652p per kWh to 3.406p per kWh, the combined effect of these price rises will mean a year-on-year reduction.

The input here of other MSErs and their calculators will be appreciated, not least because this situation concerns me: I'm not going to be the only MSEr with older family members who merely look at a headline figure -- in this case, "save £44.31p on your annual energy bill by switching tariffs" -- and sign up to it because they think it must, surely, be true. . .

System

hybernia wrote: »

My dislike of the privatized energy industry is deeply ingrained, though I try not to let prejudice get in the way. I'm told that the regulator has made the suppliers clean up their acts, to the point that nowadays they must communicate clearly and accurately with their customers. My present dual fuel supplier is EDF. It has today communicated clearly and accurately to me the following:

(1) Present tariff, Blue+Price Protection to October 31st 2018, paid by monthly Direct Debit. Exit fees: none.
Electricity: 13.46p per kWh, daily standing charge: 18.90p. Yearly personal projection: £697.37.
Gas: 2.652p per kWh, daily standing charge: 26.25p. Yearly personal projection: £974.18
Total, yearly personal projection: £1,671.55.


(2) Recommended tariff: Easy Online to August 31st 2019, paid by monthly Direct Debit. Exit fees: £30 electricity, £30 gas.
Electricity: 16.20p per kWh, daily standing charge: 18.90p. Yearly personal projection: £683.92.
Gas: 3.406 per kWh, daily standing charge, 26.25p. Yearly personal projection: £943.22.
Total, yearly personal projection: £1,627.24

Says EDF: 'By switching to Easy Online August 2019 your annual saving will be £44.31p.'

That's pretty good, yes? At a time when all energy prices are being hiked, here's EDF assuring me -- and doubtless 1,000s of other EDF customers -- that on the basis of their projected annual spends, genuine savings are now to be made. But, but, but . . .


I am mystified as to how it is that though my electricity unit cost would increase from 13.46p per kWh to 16.20p per kWh, and my gas unit cost increase from 2.652p per kWh to 3.406p per kWh, the combined effect of these price rises will mean a year-on-year reduction.

The input here of other MSErs and their calculators will be appreciated, not least because this situation concerns me: I'm not going to be the only MSEr with older family members who merely look at a headline figure -- in this case, "save £44.31p on your annual energy bill by switching tariffs" -- and sign up to it because they think it must, surely, be true. . .

Blame Ofgem and the Licence Requirements placed on suppliers. Suppliers have to use a rolling 12 month cost methodology* which provides accurate savings for all consumers EXCEPT for those on fixed term contracts with less than 12 months to run. As 70% of consumers are still on SVTs, the methodology works for for Ofgem!!!8217;s purposes.

* the methodology assumes that for cost purposes the DEFAULT position is that consumers will revert to the SVT once the fixed tariff comes to an end.

bri160356

Switching from ‘Blue+Price Protection to October 31st 2018’ tariff to EDF’s ‘Easy Online to August 31st 2019, tariff will clearly cost you more!

I’d imagine the £44.31 saving will be the difference between the new tariff they’ve offered you and the charges they’d levy if you chose not to change tariff and are automatically ported to EDF’s ‘Standard Variable’ tariff,...which is v.expensive.

My daughter and son (who were with EDF) have both changed to AVRO’s ‘Simple & Glory’ (12-month fixed, no exit fees) tariff this week.

zagfles

Yup - and comparison sites do the same. It's utter bull. Like the "estimated interest" on credit card statements, meaningless rubbish assuming stupid consumer behaviour which nanny state regulation demands, as nanny assumes all consumers are stupid.

hybernia

Hengus wrote: »

Blame Ofgem and the Licence Requirements placed on suppliers. Suppliers have to use a rolling 12 month cost methodology* which provides accurate savings for all consumers EXCEPT for those on fixed term contracts with less than 12 months to run. As 70% of consumers are still on SVTs, the methodology works for for Ofgem!!!8217;s purposes.

* the methodology assumes that for cost purposes the DEFAULT position is that consumers will revert to the SVT once the fixed tariff comes to an end.

Hengus: thanks for that. I'd suspected as much. As zagfles says, it's all utter bull -- and yet the regulator is overseeing it.


However, that doesn't alter the fact that this really is out-and-out misrepresentation, because nothing in EDF's communication indicates that the comparisons it is presenting are not ACTUAL comparisons at all, merely theoretical comparisons structured from hidden assumptions about end-of-contract standard variable tariff reversions. EDF has knowingly taken one Fixed Rate Tariff and compared it side by side with another Fixed Rate Tariff; the regulator-approved SVT consideration has been sneaked in so as to deliberately distort the outcome.


Regardless of whether or not EDF's snake-oil salesmanship is unique to it or typical of the entire industry, what advice would you give? I've elderly relatives who could read EDF's information and take it to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth and, as I said in my OP, I don't believe they'd be alone in falling for such a deception.


So then: how to get to grips with this -- an initial complaint to EDF about attempted mis-selling? Or a complaint to the regulator (though as I understand it, no mere ordinary citizen can ever communicate directly with so superior a body . . .)

System

hybernia wrote: »

Hengus: thanks for that. I'd suspected as much. As zagfles says, it's all utter bull -- and yet the regulator is overseeing it.


However, that doesn't alter the fact that this really is out-and-out misrepresentation, because nothing in EDF's communication indicates that the comparisons it is presenting are not ACTUAL comparisons at all, merely theoretical comparisons structured from hidden assumptions about end-of-contract standard variable tariff reversions. EDF has knowingly taken one Fixed Rate Tariff and compared it side by side with another Fixed Rate Tariff; the regulator-approved SVT consideration has been sneaked in so as to deliberately distort the outcome.


Regardless of whether or not EDF's snake-oil salesmanship is unique to it or typical of the entire industry, what advice would you give? I've elderly relatives who could read EDF's information and take it to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth and, as I said in my OP, I don't believe they'd be alone in falling for such a deception.


So then: how to get to grips with this -- an initial complaint to EDF about attempted mis-selling? Or a complaint to the regulator (though as I understand it, no mere ordinary citizen can ever communicate directly with so superior a body . . .)

If you are going to use a rolling 12 months as the basis for future costs then some form of mathematical assumption has to be made. Ofgem decided that the do nothing assumption was the only given. Sites such as MSE CEC also offer the 'cost for 12 months now' compared to 'costs for 12 months on these tariffs' type of comparison.

bri160356

hybernia wrote: »

Hengus: thanks for that. I'd suspected as much. As zagfles says, it's all utter bull -- and yet the regulator is overseeing it.


However, that doesn't alter the fact that this really is out-and-out misrepresentation, because nothing in EDF's communication indicates that the comparisons it is presenting are not ACTUAL comparisons at all, merely theoretical comparisons structured from hidden assumptions about end-of-contract standard variable tariff reversions. EDF has knowingly taken one Fixed Rate Tariff and compared it side by side with another Fixed Rate Tariff; the regulator-approved SVT consideration has been sneaked in so as to deliberately distort the outcome.


Regardless of whether or not EDF's snake-oil salesmanship is unique to it or typical of the entire industry, what advice would you give? I've elderly relatives who could read EDF's information and take it to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth and, as I said in my OP, I don't believe they'd be alone in falling for such a deception.


So then: how to get to grips with this -- an initial complaint to EDF about attempted mis-selling? Or a complaint to the regulator (though as I understand it, no mere ordinary citizen can ever communicate directly with so superior a body . . .)

I agree that it seems very deceptive;they tempt the unwary to move to a new 'cheaper' tariff (that actually costs more than your present tariff) by quoting a 'cost saving' against a completely different tariff altogether, the details of which they don't even mention!

I'm sure EDF's email/text advertising in this manner isn't actually illegal but it is certainly well short of 'up front';..IMHO of course.

hybernia

Hengus wrote: »

If you are going to use a rolling 12 months as the basis for future costs then some form of mathematical assumption has to be made. Ofgem decided that the do nothing assumption was the only given. Sites such as MSE CEC also offer the 'cost for 12 months now' compared to 'costs for 12 months on these tariffs' type of comparison.

Thanks, Hengus. I understand that. But it isn't my point. EDF is presently providing a side-by-side comparison of two tariffs, all on a single page. Any EDF customer wishing to know what other EDF tariff exists will likewise be presented with the same single page side-by-side comparison: the customer's existing tariff in the lefthand column, and the 'best buy' EDF recommended tariff in the righthand column. No indication appears anywhere that factoring in any other kind of calculation has occurred.



The headline information is therefore: switch to this new tariff, and you will make £saving on it compared with the existing tariff on which you are at present.



And that. . . isn't. . . the truth.

bri160356

hybernia wrote: »

Thanks, Hengus. I understand that. But it isn't my point. EDF is presently providing a side-by-side comparison of two tariffs, all on a single page. Any EDF customer wishing to know what other EDF tariff exists will likewise be presented with the same single page side-by-side comparison: the customer's existing tariff in the lefthand column, and the 'best buy' EDF recommended tariff in the righthand column. No indication appears anywhere that factoring in any other kind of calculation has occurred.



The headline information is therefore: switch to this new tariff, and you will make £saving on it compared with the existing tariff on which you are at present.



And that. . . isn't. . . the truth.

You’re being very harsh!

I think the ‘big’ energy companies have to be very inventive and economical with the truth these days just in order to survive.

Poor beleaguered souls,…I actually feel quite sorry for them;

…NOT!!! :rotfl:

hybernia

bri160356 wrote: »

You’re being very harsh! I think the ‘big’ energy companies have to be very inventive and economical with the truth these days just in order to survive.

Poor beleaguered souls,…I actually feel quite sorry for them;

…NOT!!! :rotfl:

There's a thought: MSErs joining together to set up a sort of welfare association, Friends of Utility Companies United.

We'd need to figure out a memorable acronym though. Something to remind us of the esteem in which we customers are held by unfairly criticised suppliers like EDF, Scottish Power, British Gas, NPower etc etc..

But then again, don't UK energy suppliers already have a trade body which protects their best interests? I think it's called Ofgem.

System

hybernia wrote: »

But then again, don't UK energy suppliers already have a trade body which protects their best interests? I think it's called Ofgem.

The do in fact have a trade body: Energy UK. If I recall, Angela Knight (ex MP) used to be a vocal advocate for it.

Quote: Energy UK is the trade association for the GB energy industry with a membership of over 100 suppliers, generators, and stakeholders with a business interest in the production and supply of electricity and gas for domestic and business consumers. Our membership encompasses the truly diverse nature of the UK’s energy industry – from established FTSE 100 companies right through to new, growing suppliers and generators, which now make up over half of our membership. Unquote