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PCN - driver left site

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking
20 replies 1.6K views
nisobnisob Forumite
8 posts
edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking
Hi,

This is in connection to a recent PCN issued by UKPC to the driver for leaving the site. A few forums were researched before asking questions here. The PCN in this case carries the same 'time first seen' and 'issue time'. Is this even possible? Can one appeal against this?
The driver parked the car on site to use its facilities, but before this he/she went to the train station (which is next to the parking facility and has its stairs within the parking site) to collect a friend. That probably is the reason for the ticket.

However, the driver believes that it is extremely wrong that the time first seen is 13:08 and the issue time is 13:08. The driver had waited for 4-5 min in car before they left and had noticed the PCN guy watching them. In addition, upon checking the penalty payment area in UKPC website, there is no evidence on driver leaving the site. There are only images of the car with pcn on and the UKPC signage. Therefore can the driver appeal against the lack of evidence as well the timings on the pcn? In addition, there was no clear explanation of the "site boundaries". Then how would one know if going to the railway station to collect a friend wasn't correct?

Please confirm if one can appeal on the above-mentioned grounds?

Thanks
San
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Replies

  • edited 6 July 2018 at 9:07AM
    UmkomaasUmkomaas Forumite
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    edited 6 July 2018 at 9:07AM
    Read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 where there is a ready made initial appeal template. Use that 'as is', no need to add anything.

    Also read this to understand the issues about 'leaving the site'. It was the last time such a case was pursued through the courts, seems that PPCs aren't prepared to risk that again.

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=16231)

    'Leaving the site' PCNs have become more prevalent in recent months, possibly as 'overstay' income is falling as the public become more aware of the penalties surrounding that. The PPCs are relying on the fact that many will simply pay and not challenge and win via POPLA (if BPA operators, as UKPC are).

    What do the signs say about 'leaving the site'? Go and get your own photos of the signage, close up of the wording and particularly the proximity of the signs in relation to where your vehicle was parked.

    Do your research, follow forum advice, then get this killed at POPLA.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • beamerguybeamerguy Forumite
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    Yes, this has been a little wheeze with UKPC for a
    while now.

    If the claim is "leaving site", they must prove that

    UKPC wardens cannot be trusted as they use fake pictures


    UKPC appear to use predator tactics which could be
    getting close to upskirt type pics.

    Proof is required
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS
    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
  • edited 6 July 2018 at 8:48AM
    The_DeepThe_Deep Forumite
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    edited 6 July 2018 at 8:48AM
    PPCs have been very reluctant to take leaving site cases to court since Miss Coates was threatened with prison. Rad this, the famous "toothbrush" case

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=16231)

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • fisherjimfisherjim Forumite
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    The UKPC website does not mention a "penalty" does it, and it's not a fine either.
    This is a scam invoice, UKPC have devised this trap to extract money.

    If leaving site was so detrimental to the profitability of the premises which these scamming muppets were engaged to protect, why did their tame village idiot allow the contravention of the T&C's to happen, and just watch?

    The reason is simple, it's entrapment to make money, and the dim attendent has a bonus to make.

    Follow the advice on here, don't go it alone, this is very unlikely to go to court for all the reasons mentioned, but you need to kill the hassle dead.
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
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    Therefore can the driver appeal
    No, the KEEPER does, on day 26 online - same as every UKPC windscreen PCN. Please read the NEWBIES FAQS to understand what to submit and why to wait till day 26.

    :)
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • nisobnisob Forumite
    8 posts
    Umkomaas wrote: »
    Read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 where there is a ready made initial appeal template. Use that 'as is', no need to add anything.

    Also read this to understand the issues about 'leaving the site'. It was the last time such a case was pursued through the courts, seems that PPCs aren't prepared to risk that again.

    {link removed}

    'Leaving the site' PCNs have become more prevalent in recent months, possibly as 'overstay' income is falling as the public become more aware of the penalties surrounding that. The PPCs are relying on the fact that many will simply pay and not challenge and win via POPLA (if BPA operators, as UKPC are).

    What do the signs say about 'leaving the site'? Go and get your own photos of the signage, close up of the wording and particularly the proximity of the signs in relation to where your vehicle was parked.

    Do your research, follow forum advice, then get this killed at POPLA.

    Hi Umkomaas,
    Please see the attached images of the signage, station stairs within the parking plot, also images of the parking bay with signage. The links are disabled for newbies so I had to use h**tps.

    h**ps://ibb.co/n99PNT

    h**ps://ibb.co/eV8C98

    h**ps://ibb.co/huRcbo

    I really appreciate your help!! Please let me know if you catch anything in the signage.



    I shall be reading Miss Coates case today. Could you please confirm if this is the template you are referring to? I am thinking of slightly modifying it to make it more relevant to "leaving the site" situation:

    "I appeal and dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn, nor was there an agreed contract. Your signage terms fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence of the parking charge, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis, which is fully distinguished.

    Should you fail to cancel this PCN, I require with your rejection letter, all images taken of this vehicle & the signs at the location that day. Do not withhold any images or data later relied on for POPLA/court.

    Firms of your ilk were unanimously condemned in 2018 as operating an 'outrageous scam' (Hansard 2.2.18). The BPA & IPC were heavily criticised too; hardly surprising for an industry where so-called AOS members admit to letting victims 'futilely go through the motions' of appeal and say on camera 'we make it up sometimes' (BBC Watchdog).

    I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner, as well as complaining in writing to my MP and ensuring that they are appraised of the debate where Parliament agreed unanimously: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists...should not have to put up with this''.
  • edited 9 July 2018 at 11:24AM
    FruitcakeFruitcake Forumite
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    edited 9 July 2018 at 11:24AM
    There is only one initial appeal template in the NEWBIES thread. If you copied it from there, it's the right one, even if you did miss part of it off the bottom.

    https://ibb.co/n99PNT

    https://ibb.co/eV8C98

    https://ibb.co/huRcbo
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • edited 9 July 2018 at 11:25AM
    FruitcakeFruitcake Forumite
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    edited 9 July 2018 at 11:25AM
    The signs fail the BPA requirements, with the £100 charge buried in tiny print.

    The signs do not define "the site" or show a map detailing the limits of "the site" therefore a motorist could not know if or when they have left "the site."

    The scammer's operative did not mitigate his company's loss by warning the driver they should not leave the site.

    Piece of cake win at PoPLA.

    Send the initial template from the keeper at day 26 as already advised.
    If/when it is rejected, appeal to PoPLA and win.

    Complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • edited 9 July 2018 at 11:35AM
    UmkomaasUmkomaas Forumite
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    edited 9 July 2018 at 11:35AM
    https://ibb.co/n99PNT

    https://ibb.co/eV8C98

    https://ibb.co/huRcbo
    Please let me know if you catch anything in the signage.
    I can't zoom in sufficiently, without losing focus, to read the specifics of the signage. Does it say anything at all about 'leaving the site'. Can you get a better close-up?

    Your photo of where the car was parked needs to be cropped to eliminate the sign (play UKPC at their own game!). You need photos that cannot be used against you. It's unlikely that UKPC will have photo evidence of every single angle of the car park.
    Could you please confirm if this is the template you are referring to?

    If that initial appeal was lifted directly from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 today, then it's current. Coupon-mad does update the sticky from time to time, but short of comparing every word you've transcribed above against every word in today's sticky, I can't say categorically it is or isn't.

    Quite often people copy an initial appeal from another poster's thread from months ago and ask 'Is this the one?' That's why I refer people back to today's sticky.
    I am thinking of slightly modifying it to make it more relevant to "leaving the site" situation:
    And what are you hoping to say? What are you hoping to achieve? (Note - 'Cancellation' is the wrong answer!).
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • nisobnisob Forumite
    8 posts
    Hi Fruitcake,

    Thank you very much. So the following has been gathered as a process:
    1. The keeper should send the Newbies forum's ''ONE SIZE FITS ALL'' template appeal to UKPC on day 26.
    2. When the challenge is rejected then approach POPLA with the following appeal:
    - The signage fails BPA requirements, lettering of £100 fine is too small
    - The signs do not define "the site" or show a map detailing the limits of "the site" therefore a motorist could not know if or when they have left "the site."

    Much thanks.. This forum is so helpful.
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