Challenging a will

Terry_Towelling

My most recent Will (2002) passes everything to my wife in the event I predecease her. She is 20 years my senior, so it never really crossed our minds that I would pass first. Anyway, things do tend to come out of the blue and seems there is now a chance I may go first.

Doesn't sound that strange except that she has fairly well-advanced dementia (diagnosed 2009) and I care for her at home. Should I die first, it will be impossible for any of our children to look after her at home and she will have to go into care. The house would all be hers then as would all my other assets. These would have to be liquidated to pay for her care. Her total worth would then be around £500K which would just about pay for 10 years care (probably wouldn't be needed that long though)

Now, I can change my Will to pass everything to the children to prevent a lot of this from happening. Some might think that was an inappropriate thing to do and that she should fund her own care without burdening the tax-payer. Fair enough but let's park that argument for the moment.

I am aware that if someone cuts a spouse from their Will, that spouse will have the right to challenge the Will and receive at least as much as they would have been entitled to if the couple had instead divorced. Now, my wife won't be in a position to challenge anything but...

...does anyone know whether a Local Authority could challenge my Will on the basis that my actions in cutting my wife from my Will is an act of collusion designed to deliberately deprive her of assets she would have been legally entitled to and which could then have been used to paid for more of her care?

elsien

Have you been to look at any care homes?

You may find it is far preferable for your wife/her representatives to be able to have a choice in where she lives, rather than being out in the cheapest one the LA will fund.
Money gives options - bear that in mind before leaving her at the mercy of the state.

seashore22

Sorry, not happy to park that, but I guess you thought that might happen, didn't you?

It's obviously not ok to expect tax payers to fund your wife's care when your estate can fund it for some time.

Now for the real reason that I think you are wrong. If there is money to spend then your family can choose somewhere decent for your wife to be cared for. Are you happy for her to get shoved in the cheapest available option (which is what will happen if you are reliant on state funded care)?

Of course your wife may be lucky and end up in one of the good ones, but would you take that risk? I know I would want the best for my husband and hope he would want the best for me. My children can sort their own lives out and forego a nice inheritance.

unforeseen

Maybe you ought to talk to your children and make a plan to smooth the change from you being the carer to either a care home for your wife or one of your children takes over the role.

Terry_Towelling

elsien wrote: »

Have you been to look at any care homes?

You may find it is far preferable for your wife/her representatives to be able to have a choice in where she lives, rather than being out in the cheapest one the LA will fund.
Money gives options - bear that in mind before leaving her at the mercy of the state.

You misunderstand me. I was trying to lay down facts rather than reveal too much of the emotion that sits underneath.

Yes, I have been to quite a few nursing homes and even found one that looked very good indeed - a bit pricey (£1400 per week).

My wife has her own wealth (half of our house and cash/investments amounting to a little more than I do) so she would be able to fund her own care from that for probably long enough to see her out - but no one knows.

This may sound trite but I love her more than life itself. Caring for her is the most worthwhile thing I've ever done and I will not give up on her or abandon her or betray the promise I made to her when we married. The thought of her rotting away somewhere awful fills me with dread - to be honest the thought of her having to go into any home breaks my heart. As long as there is breath in my body I will keep her in her own home where she knows what's what and can continue to live as happily as possible.

Like I said, though, things happen and she may just outlive me now.

I didn't say it in my first post (it was already getting long enough) but her Pensions/Attendance Allowance together with contributions from the children from their new-found inheritance would be used to 'top up' the LA funding to make sure she could stay in our 'chosen' place.

Do I take it you don't know the answer to the question about LA's challenging Wills?

Yorkshireman99

Terry_Towelling wrote: »

My most recent Will (2002) passes everything to my wife in the event I predecease her. She is 20 years my senior, so it never really crossed our minds that I would pass first. Anyway, things do tend to come out of the blue and seems there is now a chance I may go first.

Doesn't sound that strange except that she has fairly well-advanced dementia (diagnosed 2009) and I care for her at home. Should I die first, it will be impossible for any of our children to look after her at home and she will have to go into care. The house would all be hers then as would all my other assets. These would have to be liquidated to pay for her care. Her total worth would then be around £500K which would just about pay for 10 years care (probably wouldn't be needed that long though)

Now, I can change my Will to pass everything to the children to prevent a lot of this from happening. Some might think that was an inappropriate thing to do and that she should fund her own care without burdening the tax-payer. Fair enough but let's park that argument for the moment.

I am aware that if someone cuts a spouse from their Will, that spouse will have the right to challenge the Will and receive at least as much as they would have been entitled to if the couple had instead divorced. Now, my wife won't be in a position to challenge anything but...

...does anyone know whether a Local Authority could challenge my Will on the basis that my actions in cutting my wife from my Will is an act of collusion designed to deliberately deprive her of assets she would have been legally entitled to and which could then have been used to paid for more of her care?

The LA cant challenge your will as you can leave you assets to whoever you like.

SevenOfNine

Presume your house owned as Tenants in Common, in which case your portion is for you to leave to whomever you wish.

Are bank accounts already separate? Can see no reason for the LA to 'challenge' your will leaving all that's in your own a/c (& any investments of yours) to your children, as long as you've not opened a new individual a/c in your name & removed half (or more) from a joint one to your own. TBH not sure if they might start yelling "deprivation of assets" if you did.

If you & your wife genuinely kept everything separate, then change your will by all means, as you are entitled to do. If you've moved (or plan to move) money held jointly when she is not of sound enough mind to agree to it, that's a whole different ballgame.

I'll leave the lecturing & posturing to others, for sure you're likely to get more of it, & say I wish you well as clearly you have major health fears/issues, & are just trying to get your financial affairs in order for the benefit of your wife AND offspring.

Terry_Towelling

seashore22 wrote: »

Sorry, not happy to park that, but I guess you thought that might happen, didn't you?

It's obviously not ok to expect tax payers to fund your wife's care when your estate can fund it for some time.

Now for the real reason that I think you are wrong. If there is money to spend then your family can choose somewhere decent for your wife to be cared for. Are you happy for her to get shoved in the cheapest available option (which is what will happen if you are reliant on state funded care)?

Of course your wife may be lucky and end up in one of the good ones, but would you take that risk? I know I would want the best for my husband and hope he would want the best for me. My children can sort their own lives out and forego a nice inheritance.

Obviously I didn't make things clear enough in my first post and I will probably sound as prickly as you in this post.

Please read my other post in reply to Elsien. On top of that I didn't ask you to tell me whether I was right or wrong, I asked whether anyone knew if an LA could challenge a Will in the circumstances described.

If you see me as some heartless cretin that would abandon the woman he loves you are wrong. I'm not going to give you our life-story or provide so much detail that people will not read it all.

Passing the inheritance to the children has less to do with feathering their nests than protecting the value we have worked so hard to build up and ensuring that we can meet the level of the better care home fees for as long as possible. We could have squandered everything on high-living and left the state to pick up the whole tab but thought we'd try to do something good for each other and our children.

You might want to talk to your husband about what provision he will make for you rather than simply 'hoping' that he will want the best for you if you are ever mired in the disaster that is dementia. It's not all about old people looking at black and white photos of the war and asking the same question over and over - but maybe you have as many years of 24/7 experience of it as I do and know that already.

It may not be 'OK' in your eyes for the tax-payer to fork out for other people. Do you have the same view of people who have children and expect the tax payer to pay for their day-care or for people to receive what used to be called 'family allowance' and tax credits. Surely, if you can't afford to have children you shouldn't expect others to subsidise their upbringing?

Terry_Towelling

unforeseen wrote: »

Maybe you ought to talk to your children and make a plan to smooth the change from you being the carer to either a care home for your wife or one of your children takes over the role.

All in hand, thank you.

Terry_Towelling

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

The LA cant challenge your will as you can leave you assets to whoever you like.

Thank you for the concise answer and lack of finger-wagging.

Mojisola

Terry_Towelling wrote: »

I didn't say it in my first post (it was already getting long enough) but her Pensions/Attendance Allowance together with contributions from the children from their new-found inheritance would be used to 'top up' the LA funding to make sure she could stay in our 'chosen' place.

If she is counted as a self-funder then there will be no funding from the LA.

If she meets the qualifications for LA funding, then all her income will go towards repaying the LA apart from around £20 a week spending money - you don't get LA funding and keep your own money.

Also, residents funded by the council aren't allowed to pay top-up fees from their own money - the top-up has to come from a third party.