Issues with Clothes Moths - Private Tenant

Gyingehn

We are having extended issues with a new landlord who is seemingly trying to push the cost of dealing with clothes moths onto us and had hoped the people of this lovely forum could give some advice / pointers.

We noticed these little blighters a few months ago and immediately notified our landlord as is required in our tenancy agreement:

4.16. To take all reasonable precautions to prevent infestation of the Premises and to pay for the eradication of any infestation caused by the negligence, action or lack of action of the Tenant, his family or his visitors.

Since the infestation was not caused by 'negligence, action or lack of action' we are not liable. The inverse of this section suggests if we did all we should, the landlord is liable.

I immediately bought sprays and traps to do what I could, but to no avail and the landlord agreed to pay for treatment.! We obtained two quotes from professional services, but then our landlord changed since he lost the house to his wife in their divorce.

This is when the problems began.! Instead of appointing one of the two professional service firms who had attended and provided quotes, she appointed a third party who had not attended the property or discussed the problem with us.! They've now attended twice and the problem has not gone away and they have stopped replying to my emails.

I have spent in excess of £1000 so far trying to sort the issue and this does not include costs such as energy in having the washing machine and tumble dryer permanently on, nor does it include the damaged clothes we have had to throw away.

The primary area being attacked is the carpets, not clothes, although we have had to start throwing items away. We bought a chest freezer and are systematically going through all clothes and textiles (e.g. pillows) and either washing at 60 or washing, freezing and then washing again.

The issue really is that I see them coming back, mainly from cracks in the walls and in ill-fitting skirting boards, which is the landlord responsibility under section 3.1. I've also already spent well over 100 hours sorting clothes, cleaning after each treatment and basic admin trying to get this resolved.

Lastly, the agent they have appointed is doing a really shoddy job; they are not spraying in areas we have identified as potential problems and are in and out of our 5 bedroom house in 30 minutes. They do not reply to calls, emails or text messages.

TL,DR:

Summary of key points
1. We notified the landlord as soon as possible
2. We do not have any second hand textile furniture; only thing in the property that is second hand is the single bed left by previous tenants
3. We have paid £1,192.44 so far and this does not include energy costs or damage to property such as clothes
4. New landlord appointed an agent that were 'cheap' and hadn't viewed the property
5. Current sprays have had limited impact
6. Despites all our efforts, I feel the poor quality treatments mean the moths will come back

Margot123

When I was in private rented for 15 years, I suffered from clothes moths, wasps, hornets and bees.
I accepted it was part and parcel of every day living and dealt with it. Just as I would if I owned the property.

I couldn't see how it was possibly my landlord's fault.

Gyingehn

The issue is caused by the old wool carpets and possibly the second hand single bed that was here when we arrived.

The landlord is legally bound to make the place habitable and currently it is not. We are also only duty bound to notify them and rectify if it were our fault (e.g. if it were rats and we had left black bags of food outside in the garden for weeks on end).

We have a professional clean bi-weekly and obviously clear ourselves. The issue is the moths are in areas we cannot do anything about and the service they have chosen is cheap and will not solve the issue. The cost of the more expensive treatment is ~5 weeks of rent.

If we owned the property, I'd tear up all the carpets and underlay, treat and refit new non-wool carpets. I'd also do the heat treatment, but I don't own the house nor will I spent 4k to fix their carpets.

camptownraces

Unless the moths were visible when you first moved in, it's quite possible that you yourselves introduced them.
How long have you lived in this property?
How long ago did you first notice the clothes moths or carpet moths?

Moths alone do not make the place uninhabitable.

If you think it's your landlord's fault, write to her, copied to the agent, explaining that your next course of action will be to involve the council's Environmental Health Officer. Don't rate your chances with this: it might provoke a Section 21 notice.

davidmcn

Gyingehn wrote: »

4.16. To take all reasonable precautions to prevent infestation of the Premises and to pay for the eradication of any infestation caused by the negligence, action or lack of action of the Tenant, his family or his visitors.

The inverse of this section suggests if we did all we should, the landlord is liable.

There's no general principle that the inverse of tenant's obligations are landlord's obligations (or vice versa). So unless there's another clause actually saying so (or a statutory provision) then it's not the case that the landlord is obliged to sort out infestations not caused by your negligence. Often things just fall between two stools, until either the tenant or landlord choose to deal with them.

Gyingehn

Thanks for the comments so far, much appreciated.

I wouldn't mind a section 21, although technically they cannot do this as our fixed term contract runs for another 4 months. That being said, I'd be very happy to move out with 2 months notice, in fact, I'd move out by end of July if possible. I have no issue moving and might even suggest this to the landlord.

In terms of sorting, we have precedence now as they've already attempted to sort it with a spray, it just has not worked. I don't see why we should be forced to live here as it eats away at our garments when the carpets are the problems.

We first noticed them some 14 or 15 months after moving it, so it is unlikely we were the cause. It could be the case they just came in one evening when the windows were open. Our original landlord (lovely, tried to help) actually wondered if the neighbours had the issue as they arrived roughly two months before we spotted them.

The new landlord is not a nice person. I suspect she wants to do nothing until the tenancy ends then attempt to use our 4.5k deposit to pay for new carpets. :mad:

buggy_boy

Have the professionals actually said the cause is the wool carpets? if so just get this in writing. I would suspect it would be hard to prove.

The fact you were there for 14-15 months means they probably came in during your tenancy, I don't see any sort of negligence by the landlord. I think infestations such as rats, wasps, bees etc would be landlord responsibility to sort however infestations likely brought in by the tenant regardless of accidental like fleas, ticks clothes moths etc is not so clear...

I dont think you have any sort of precedence just because they tried to sort the issue with spray. I think a slightly more pragmatic viewpoint would be more helpful, you seem very defensive... If you have it in writing that the landlord will pay this seems a better defence for you not paying.

Did you take any reasonable precautions like regular spraying because they are wool carpets?

G_M

I don't believe clothes moths make a property uninhabitable, though if there's an Environmental Officer reading this perhaps they could confirrm?


But the LL should come round and commit to a 24 hour presence trapping and removing any moths seen........

Jaffapig

I can't really comment on the main topic of your post, sorry.

But I wanted to say that I suffered with these bloody moths through 3 properties over many years and do not doubt that it was I who brought them with me to the 2nd and 3rd properties through my textiles etc.

So when I moved to property number 4 I bought this spray (contains insecticide):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005EGVCX4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And I sprayed EVERY INCH of carpet in the house before any furniture went in (I probably sprayed thicker than the recommendation on the bottle) and I swear I have not seen a single moth since. And the carpet of the previous property I was in had become absolutely infested. I don't doubt for a second had I not done that that I would be seeing moths still today.

It's not that cheap but the bottle goes a fair way, Have sprayed a whole two bedroom house and still have half the bottle left. Would absolutely recommend. Forget the contractors just buy this and lift up all your furniture and spray all the floor. Kills the moths in the larval stage so it may take a month to see the cycle broken.

I wouldn't even bother with the traps because the females could lay all the eggs before falling for the trap and the cycle doesn't get broken.

Gyingehn

Apologies, I am being defensive. Both of us are at our wits-end and it has been causing sleepless nights for months.

The biggest issue is the sudden change in direction after the LL changed. Previously, he had agreed to undertake the action and I agreed to put the dog in kennels and pay for the cleaning. We tag teamed and it felt like we could resolve the issue.

The new LL has close to zero motivation to resolve. Example, they said I could pay for the more expensive treatment myself and could deduct what they were going to pay from the bill, when I asked how much they were paying she said it was none of my business! No ability to work out my section of the bill if I am unaware what they paid for this service (which I've subsequently found out is 40% of the cost of the next cheapest service, and you can see why).

Further, we have holes in the window ledge where some of the moths have been found, which is the LL's responsibility and they are aware of this.

I also resent being accused of 'bringing them with me'. We own nothing that is second hand and have never had a problem in any of our previous rentals (having done so for 13 years).

Both inspectors said the area is having a surge in clothes moths and it is quite possibly they just flew in and found themselves on a keratin filled wool carpet. The issue now is the wool carpets, this is where all eggs have been found so far.

To be frank, I'd prefer to move out in a month and slowly migrate our items once cleansed and leave the landlord to do whatever they feel is necessary. However, the tone coming from them very much indicates they want to use our deposit to 'fix the problem' which is egregious.

Gyingehn

Jaffapig wrote: »

I can't really comment on the main topic of your post, sorry.

But I wanted to say that I suffered with these bloody moths through 3 properties over many years and do not doubt that it was I who brought them with me to the 2nd and 3rd properties through my textiles etc.

So when I moved to property number 4 I bought this spray (contains insecticide):

<link removed otherwise I cannot post>

And I sprayed EVERY INCH of carpet in the house before any furniture went in (I probably sprayed thicker than the recommendation on the bottle) and I swear I have not seen a single moth since. And the carpet of the previous property I was in had become absolutely infested. I don't doubt for a second had I not done that that I would be seeing moths still today.

It's not that cheap but the bottle goes a fair way, Have sprayed a whole two bedroom house and still have half the bottle left. Would absolutely recommend. Forget the contractors just buy this and lift up all your furniture and spray all the floor. Kills the moths in the larval stage so it may take a month to see the cycle broken.

I wouldn't even bother with the traps because the females could lay all the eggs before falling for the trap and the cycle doesn't get broken.

Thanks a lot! I just bought the 1 litre bottle, arrives 23rd to 25th. Appreciate it a lot!