help needed with ukcps parking charge. cloned plate - police have been no help at all

funkyspaceman

hi, i hope somebody can advise me. please excuse the formatting, this was
typed on my mobile.

i wish i had found this forum sooner than i did. i hope i haven't already
messed things up or left things too late.

i received a letter in the post from ukcps car parking solutions, dated 3rd
may 2018, explaining that i have received a £60 parking charge because my
car was parked in an area for emergency vehicles only in
hendham vale industrial estate, manchester, however, i have never been to
manchester, and at the time of the parking charge, i was actually at work
(in north shields, tyne and wear) with my car, so there is no way it could
have been my car.
the make, model and colour of the car in the photos on the letter are the
same as my car, however there are some obvious visual differences between
that car and my car. the registration plate is however the same as mine, so
it looks like my plate has been cloned.

my first action was to call ukcps and explain to them everything described
above, but they said I'd need to appeal and provide a crime reference
number for the parking charge to be removed.

after speaking several times and giving all the details to both northumbria
and greater manchester police (i had to speak to both forces because the
crime happened in manchester but i live in north shields), they gave me a
log number (not a crime reference number) and was told i should let the
dvla know which i have done, and said that with the details i have given
plus the log number i would be able to appeal.

using a link that i was given when i first spoke to ukcps, i sent my appeal
which included photographic evidence of my car showing the obvious visual
differences between my car and the car in the parking charge photos. i
explained that i was at work with my car at the time, and i also included
the log number given to me by the police. nearly 3 weeks passed before i
got an email back from ukcps saying that my appeal had been declined
because i didn't provide a crime reference number, and that if i don't
provide one after 14 days, the charge will remain in my name.

once again, i got back in touch with greater manchester police, and once
again i ended up being passed from one police force to another, until
eventually, it was arranged for an officer from northumbria police to call
round to my address, where i thought he was going to look at my cars vin.
however, he wasn't aware of greater manchester police being in touch with
northumbria police, so all he could do was advise me to ring back greater
manchester police, with specific instructions how to get them to contact
northumbria police, to get an officer to look at my car. even though he was
there in my house, he couldn't speak to them on my behalf.

i haven't yet rang greater manchester police back because it has been
really frustrating and i have actually been getting quite stressed about
the whole situation and i'm sick of being passed back and forth. i feel
like i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

on the parking charge letter from ukcps, i noticed that there is a way to
apply for a 2nd appeal, via a company called the independent appeals service.
i have tried appealing using this service and am currently waiting to hear
back from them. i'm not that confident that it will be accepted though. i
have provided them with all the same information that i provided ukcps and
explained the situation to them.

it is at this point that i discovered this forum. if i had found it
earlier, i'd have followed the guide and used the letter template provided.
as i said earlier, i hope i haven't messed things up or left it too late.

how can i get the parking charge removed? the police have quite frankly
been useless, and i have no idea what to do next.

thank you to anybody that takes their time to read this, and for any
replies/advice given.

Redx

you are unlikely to get it removed unless the landowner or MA , or the IAS cancel it


otherwise, just write out your own statement as to the saga above and keep it , wityh all the details of the police etc , in a folder


if UKCPS are daft enough to try an MCOL, you will be defending this on the same basis you describe


until a jusge makes a ruling , you have nothing to fear , its all intimidation for profit so just file and forget once your evidence is in your folder


do not throw anything away, just keep copies of everything

Coupon-mad

however there are some obvious visual differences between
that car and my car. the registration plate is however the same as mine, so it looks like my plate has been cloned

Show and spell out those differences to the DVLA by email/complaint letter (with photos to show the differences) and make a formal complaint about your data being released to UKCPS for a cloned number-plate, and complain that this AOS member is lying about crime numbers.

And read this one:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/02/flawed-anpr-misread-causes-2-years-of.html

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5574215/help

I helped that poster retrieve a court case she VERY nearly managed to lose, all about the same issue. Police NEVER issue a crime number for a cloned numberplate because there is no crime against YOU.

Stop running around doing what UKCPS tell you to. They are ex-clamper chancers and they are handling data that they should not be doing.

Write ONCE (a formal letter, headed up - UKCPS are wrongly processing my data - cease and desist - DVLA complaint re cloned number-plate) and tell them that they are in breach of data protection law, that the DVLA are investigating the facts, and a complaint will shortly be made to the Information Commissioner (ICO) about UKCPS continuing to handle the data and unreasonably pretending (lying?) that Police can issue a crime number. They never issue a crime number for cloned plates and UKCPS are wasting your time, and they MUST now cease and desist from processing of your data, and delete it.

When the DVLA come back to you, send the outcome to UKCPS if they are still bothering you. Tell them if they write to your demanding money again you will charge £100 per letter for the significant distress of this utter harassment and data protection breach, and will sue them if they continue.

If they still bother you, make that complaint to the ICO (online compliant, easy to follow the steps on the ICO website), using the DVLA investigation as your proof, plus your evidence that the car has visual differences, plus any proof of - or a witness statement from a colleague or friend or family member - to confirm where you/your 'real' car actually was that day. Explain how UKCPS have illegally continued to process your data and lied about a 'crime number' they know full well is never issued for cloned plates.

The contact for a DVLA complaint, is in post #5 of the NEWBIES FAQS sticky thread.

Fruitcake

This isn't a case of cloning, it's a fault with the known fatally flawed ANPR system.
It has captured an image of the plate then doctored it and then used character recognition, because it couldn't read the real number.
Think Microsoft auto-carrot or unpredictive text.


It's no different than the human brain changing an image captured by the Mk 1 eyeball to something it recognises because the real thing doesn't make sense.

Complain to the DVLA that this is what has happened. Your car was never there. The ANPR has misinterpreted someone else's number as yours.

As above, list the discrepancies. Cracks in the plate, flies, screws, badges, smuts, stickers on the car. List everything no matter how small.

Coupon-mad

It could be, but the DVLA complaint will flush the truth out.

Urgent action needed by the OP, to spell out the issue to the DVLA, with pictures.

waamo

My money is on a misreading followed by an "enhanced" image.

When they send photos they are digitally enhanced. This is where mistakes happen. The software is often not the best. For some reason ppc's don't want to splash out on a top notch bit of kit.

Macam1

Gmp would not give you a crime number as no crime has been committed. Your incident number is a record of the matter.

I would suggest that you speak to your local force try your neighbourhood policing team rather than 101 explain the issue ask if you attend the police station will an officer confirm your car vin with pnc records, take all the paperwork with you. It takes 2 minutes.


Then an entry should,go on the police national computer against your vehicle indicating a cloned vehicle.

Pass the details of the incident to the company issuing the invoice If they ask for a crime number advise to speak to the police regarding the

Coupon-mad

All good advice but he/she must get the DVLA involved too.

At the moment UKCPS are leading them a merry dance. The DVLA will investigate and it could merely be that the useless parking firm has misread the VRN and enhanced a photo wrongly.

Not for the first time.

But that wouldn't be a Police matter. Hence why it's best to get the DVLA to look at the photos and double check UKCPS' photos for themselves. The DVLA can 'have words' with UKCPS if there are concerns about their own data processing/photo reliability.

funkyspaceman

thank you all for the replies, i read them before work this morning and intended to follow the advice in them, but i no longer need to which i really can't believe! my 2nd appeal actually worked out in my favour!
i got an email from the independent appeals service this afternoon saying 'Thank you for your appeal. Due to further information UKCPS Ltd has confirmed they will no longer be pursuing the matter and the parking charge has been cancelled.'

i really can't believe it, it feels like there's a weight been lifted off my shoulders!

thank you all again for your replies, they are very much appreciated

Umkomaas

The IAS won't upset their paymasters by upholding motorists' appeals. Rather they have a quiet word with the PPC and advise they withdraw their charge. Saves the egg all over their [STRIKE]snouts[/STRIKE] faces!

Ralph-y

and .......


just so you learn from this and be forewarned for next time .....


please watch read ....


https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.

Ralph:cool: