Court Claim received from Gladstone on behalf of PACE Recovery

Enrique123

Haha no way.

Yes claimed for half days work, travel and parking. Wasn't much but felt good

Umkomaas

Well done. :T

Can you give us a short report of what happened, what the Judge said, why it was 'thrown' and any other points of interest please?

Enrique123

Thank you KeithP, Coupon-mad, Umkomas and all on the forum who have been extremely helpful throughout this process

Enrique123

Sure will do later on. Not sure if I receive a transcript or anything but can type it up from memory.

Umkomaas

Enrique123 wrote: »

Sure will do later on. Not sure if I receive a transcript or anything but can type it up from memory.

You only get a transcript if you pay for it - it would cost you more for that than if you'd lost your case! . You'll get a copy of the judgment, but that will just be a couple of sentences to sum up the Judges decision and a further line indicating the costs you were awarded.

DoaM

You won't receive a transcript ... they have to be requested (and paid for - they're not cheap).

Enrique123

Hi All,

My brother has received a court claim from Gladstone for a single PCN.

I have helped him submit an AoS and also helped construct & submit a defence, using the information and help gained from the forum previously.

Background:

- Defendant is freehold owner (ex-council property) of property which allows him parking in the adjacent residential carpark. Free amenity provided to all tenants on the street, council tenants & freehold owners alike.
- Defendant has a valid permit displayed at all times, which is renewed annually / regularly with the council for a nominal administration free.
- On alleged date, PCN was issued for allegedly not parking within a marked bay.
- The claimant has not provided any evidence that the defendant was the driver of alleged offence.

He now needs to submit a directions questionnaire within 30 days from 9th May and I had a section re part D3 - witnesses. I will attend any hearing with him as a litigant-in-person (or whatever the term is for a non-legally qualified person) and wanted to check if the number of witnesses should be 1 or 2 (highlighted below). I am not going to provide any evidence as such, but wish to speak on his behalf as my brother is not comfortable in such a setting and feels he may not be able to argue a case eloquently.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5546325/court-claim-procedure-updated-october-2016
"After sending off your Defence, the Northampton Business centre will send a copy to the Claimant, and then send a Directions Questionnaire (form N180) to both Claimant and Defendant. You must complete this by the date given, and send it back to Northampton, with a copy to the other side (or their solicitors if they've nominated one as the address for service). The recommended answers to the questions are as follows:
A1 = NO to mediation (they want the whole amount, you want to pay them nothing, so no scope for mediation. This will not go against you)
B = fill in all the details, name, address, etc
C1 = YES to small claims track – this is the limited costs track for claims up to £10,000 in value
D1 = name of your local County Court – unless you are a Ltd company, the case files will be transferred there
D2 = NO to expert evidence (this relates to medical negligence cases and suchlike)
D3 = 1 witness (that’s you) (or more if you are going to get another person to provide a statement)
D4 = Put down the dates of any pre-booked holidays, NO to interpreter (unless you need one)."

Coupon-mad

I will attend any hearing with him as a litigant-in-person (or whatever the term is for a non-legally qualified person) and wanted to check if the number of witnesses should be 1 or 2 (highlighted below). I am not going to provide any evidence as such, but wish to speak on his behalf as my brother is not comfortable in such a setting and feels he may not be able to argue a case eloquently.

You will be a lay rep. You just turn up with him, no need for permission.

You are not counted as a witness, so he only ticks 1 witness.

Enrique123

Hi,

I have a query related to another PCN. My other brother received a PCN from PACE for parking in the same carpark (go figure - these guys seem are relentless and the local residents have actually seen an increase in the number of issued PCNs in the carpark this year*).

So the background is the PCN was issued for an invalid permit.
- 24 hr visitor Permit was displayed on dashboard as per usual
- Permit had expired by approx 35 mins. My brother had actually gone to update the Permit but found the PCN issued with the Parking attendant leaving (driving away).
- NTK followed after 30days

Appeal letter sent to PACE via email using the template in the Newbie forum. A rejection was received (as expected), however the most interesting point within the rejection reply states that there is no grace period applicable. I note however from the IPC handbook that "drivers should be allowed a sufficient amount of time to leave after a pre-paid or permitted period has expired" - In this situation, the permitted period being 24hours.
1. Although no definition is given as to what sufficient means, my view is that for a pre-paid parking of 1 hour, it's 10-15mins, surely for a 24 hour period it is slightly longer?
2. By stating no grace period is applicable PACE are in breach of their own Codes of Conduct and is this contract therefore even valid?
3. I gather from the Codes that such information should be stipulated from the contract between PACE and landowner - I have requested this through my councillor.

Can I get views on points #1 & #2 above please?

*My councillor has reached out to the relevant council department and forwarded a letter response which provided statistics around no. of PCNs issued in this one parking site - the information is an eye opener, as the number of PCNs issued in Q1 2019 compared to same period 2018 is double!! increase from 60 to 120 - so hence the reason local residents have raised concerns. I am in the process of writing a petition and would welcome any previous experience and past examples on this forum.

Coupon-mad

How does a Council Dept know how many private PCNs were issued unless it's council land, where Councils (and their agents) are NOT ALLOWED to operate as if it's a private contractual charge.

You said this:

Defendant is freehold owner (ex-council property) of property which allows him parking in the adjacent residential carpark. Free amenity provided to all tenants on the street, council tenants & freehold owners alike.

So is the overall site freeholder the Council?

In the two cases, has the driver been admitted in any appeal or contact?

I am in the process of writing a petition and would welcome any previous experience and past examples on this forum.

Apart from a petition, if the Council have contracted a private firm to run the site 'as if it was private land' then that is against Dept for Transport and Local Government Ombudsman policies.

Both your brothers, and ALL victims, should write to formally complain to the Council and tell them they will take the case to the LGO, and that (if this is their contractor) they must suspend enforcement IMMEDIATELY:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75851795#Comment_75851795

Show the LGO report about the Kent Council complaint upheld (and Kent had to suspend enforcement) and Robert Goodwill's letter from the DFT, to the Councillor too:

http://www.bexley-is-bonkers.co.uk/documents/parking/tma_warning.pdf

http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php?topic=4719.0

But only if the PPC is contracted by the Council...must be, if they have PCN figures.