SAD Lamps

moneysaver12

hi i get sad and iam looking to buy a lamp, im not sure what kind i need, has anyone bough one of these and where they any good, im looking for something not too expensive, ive seen some on ebay but not sure if they are any good. Do these work

Siouxie_2

I havent tried the lamps but i know ASDA sell the 'daylight bulbs' and i was thinking about getting them now the nights are drawing in.

Ted_Hutchinson

If you use the words SAD or SADLIGHT and search this forum you will see the topic has been discussed many time.

MY Sadlights remain in the loft as they did all last winter and since I've kept my Vitamin D/omega3 status optimal.

This type of 38 WATT 2D 240V FLUORESCENT TASK LIGHT Tasklight will be as effective as most 38watt sadlights as it contains the same light source.

What matters is the intensity of the light and that depends mainly on how close you sit to the light.

If you want to spend four times as much money for one you have to sit twice as far from that's your decision but in my view you are less likely to blast your partner out of the room with a bright light that you can sit right up close to than one which dazzles everyone who comes into the room and which you cannot get near because it is so bright. If you are going to use the light regularly then it must be tolerable and not too uncomfortable thus buying a cheaper light source and sitting closer to it or having it on your desk right by the monitor will do just fine providing you use it early in the day and stop using it late afternoon and use subdued lighting from about 8pm. You are retraining your melatonin cycle by using bright light early in the day to stop melatonin production in the day and dim light evenings (and as dark a bedroom as possible) to enhance melatonin secretion to help you sleep better at night.

But remember if your brain has all the anti inflammatory agents it requires it will cope with stress better therefore dealing with the cause of depression, inflammation, by optimising vitamin d3, omega3, magnesium status will treat the cause of the depression wereas lightboxes treat the symptoms.

moneysaver12

is normal vitamin d ok, i will get some omega3

Ted_Hutchinson

moneysaver12 wrote: »

is normal vitamin d ok

Only if it says CHOLECALCIFEROL or D3 or unsuitable for vegetarians on the label.
Some Vit d on the market (ie Zipvit) is erogcalciferol D2 this is only one third as effective IF it is absorbed at all so 1000iu D3 = 3000iu d2
Boots ONLINE (not high street) have 500iu D3 at 6 x 90 capsules 540 at £5.96 to take an effective amount would require 8 caps daily. As you've got to go online you may as well go to Boots via Quidco for extra saving and as 6 packs represents 67days intake and you need sufficient to get to March you may as well by 12packs and save the postage. I use a USA source as this means I only have to take 5 one week and 6 the next in winter.

Holland & Barrett have 100 x 1000iu D3 at £3.74 only 4 daily would be needed.
From April onwards, when your shadow is shorter than your height, sunshine provides roughly 3000iu/daily so the supplements can be reduced.

i will get some omega3

While I am all for people taking an effective amount of omega 3 you need to understand that omega3 is not the factor that usually varies seasonally and for SAD it is the seasonal variation in Vitamin D status that is causing your inability to function as well in the winter. There is evidence that Cod Liver Oil (because it contains both omega 3 and vitamin d) reduces depression but that is a Norwegian study and maybe their Cod Liver Oil only contains NATURAL vit a and not synthetic vitamin A, some of our UK brands of CLO are standardised to always provide x amount of vit A (and this is too high for more than 2 tsps daily) no one should be using large amounts of CLO as a source of vitamin d. Do be aware with omega 3 of the EPA + DHA content. Where WHF say a person consuming 2000 calories per day should eat sufficient omega-3-rich foods to provide at least 4 grams of omega-3 fatty acids. they are talking about the omega 3 total and not the number of fish oil capsules consumed.
Some omega 3 fish oil capsules are 1g =1000mg but these may only contain 180epa + 120dha= 300mg (about a third of a gram) of omega 3
So rather than just 4 of these 1g capsules one would need 12 daily to obtain 4g omega 3.

There are double strength omega3's around that cost more per capsule but may work out cheaper as you only need half as many.

Don't forget a tin of Netto's sardines in tomato sauce contains 2g of OMEGA 3 and costs around 18p the last time I was in Netto's. Ensuring you eat oily fish 2-3 times a week would save on the capsules.
The cheapest source of omega 3 is probably ground whole flaxseed.

PS These are BOTH good strategies for dealing with the inflammation at the root of depression. but they should be viewed as complementary to one another and not alternatives. There is some evidence that having higher omega 3 intake impacts on 1,25-(OH)2 vitamin D3 activity so improving both vit d3 & omega 3 rather than one or the other is best.

zebidee1

Ted_Hutchinson wrote: »

Holland & Barrett have 100 x 1000iu D3 at £3.74 only 4 daily would be needed.

I can't find these online......are they instore only do you know....or am I just not looking properly?

Ted_Hutchinson

zebidee1 wrote: »

I can't find these online......are they instore only do you know....or am I just not looking properly?

Click here but remember you've only got till 8th November. but if you've a Quidco account that gives you 15% cashback off H&B online so go through them now you know what you are looking for.

Sufficient vitamin d for 360/days (but bear in mind from April to September you will be getting some from sunshine so these will actually last longer than 360 days) cost from USA including postage= £22.13 GBP

From H&B the same quantity is £53.85 as each pot of 100 only last 25 days.

ailuro2

http://www.androv-medical.com/product/97/sad-10-000-led-lightpad/8e9a5e72c501180a01e6caf2ddd35a81 is a total of 79.98, but you get 10% back through Quidco- ours arrived last week, it took less than a week to arrive.

Yes, we do the vitamin D thing too, but for it to be really effective you need to start in September.

Because my DH and I both work in a factory with no natural daylight we are adding a SAD lamp this year to help fight the dreaded SAD.

A couple of winters ago I ended up at the doctor, got checked for everything before they believed it was SAD, ended up on antidepressants which had horrible side effects, so now I will do everything in my power to stay topped up and happy. So far, so good, my skin itching is always the first sign of onset, and so far this year I've not had it.:D

Ted_Hutchinson

ailuro2 wrote: »

Yes, we do the vitamin D thing too, but for it to be really effective you need to start in September.

But you can catch up your vitamin d status by taking a course of higher strength capsules one 50,000iu weekly averages 7000iu/d approx for 8 weeks should mean (because you are taking daily somewhat more than you body uses daily) your reserves are topped up.

I'm afraid you have to either buy in bulk and take several tablets daily or shop in the USA for effective strength Vitamin D 2000

It would be helpful to others if you reported back on your LED sadlight. Looks like it would do the trick and being a handy size simple to move around to where you want to be.
I can't see any power lead in the picture.
Is it rechargable battery or mains?

Ted_Hutchinson

I've decided to try to improve the quality of answers provided to GP's by the Primary Care Question Answering Service
As it concerns SAD I am copying my reply here so folks can see why my opinion differs from that of the NHS. I start by presenting their official answer to the question.

What is the evidence for using Vitamin D supplements in patients with seasonal affective disorder?

Answer:
Overall, there is little evidence.
A 2002 Australian guideline reported on complementary treatments for depression [1], this reported:
“Vitamin D. In a small, short, single-blind, randomised-controlled trial involving patients with winter depression, depression was alleviated in patients receiving vitamin D but not in those receiving light therapy.”
A more recent trial (2006) looked at vitamin d supplementation to reduce seasonal mood disturbance in a group of elderly women [2]. This large trial (2117 patients) saw patients randomised to receive either calcium and vitamin D supplementation or no supplementation. Overall, the authors concluded:
“Supplementing elderly women with 800 IU of vitamin D daily did not lead to an improvement in mental health scores.”
References
1) http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/176_10_200502/jor10311_fm.html
2) http://pmid.us/ 16554952


My reply states. (preliminary courtesies snipped)

Your article fails to include a reference to the paper
Vitamin D3 enhances mood in healthy subjects during winter.
this research was conducted at The University of Newcastle, Callaghan NSW, Australia. Latitude 32S

but you do mention the study
Can vitamin D supplementation prevent winter-time blues? A randomised trial among older women. Conducted at latitude 53N York UK.

If we spend a few moments considering these two studies we should be able by comparing them understand why although both trials used 800iu/d vitamin d one showed improvement in SAD and the other doesn’t.

1) Latitude affects vitamin d status.

I’m sure readers appreciate latitude 32S is nearer the Equator than lat 52N and so there will be more days when UVB reaches the ground at Lat 32S than at 52N. But perhaps you aren’t aware that even at the equivalent latitude in N and S hemispheres the sun shines 10% brighter in the south. 5% is accounted for the tilting of the earth as it orbits the sun bringing the southern hemisphere physically nearer the sun than when it’s winter in the northern hemisphere. The other 5% occurs because there is more sea, so less atmospheric pollution, in the southern hemisphere and the denser pollution in the north because there are more cities, cars, factories etc. stops some of the UVB from reaching the ground.

It is therefore reasonable to suppose the SAD Australian patients had a vitamin d status somewhat nearer optimal than the York SAD patients.

2) Age and Outdoor activity affects vitamin d status.
The Australian patients were otherwise healthy young men, the York patients were 70 years old women so again it is reasonable to expect the young Australian men spent more time outdoors than the York elderly ladies and thin aged skins contain less cholesterol and thus make less vitamin d given the same sun exposure.

3) Ergocalciferol only 25%-33% as effective as Cholecalciferol
In Australia the vitamin D used was D3 while in York they used vitamin D2. Ergocalciferol.
The case against ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) as a vitamin supplement
Lisa A Houghton and Reinhold Vieth

Shows us that
In humans, vitamin D3 is more effective than vitamin D2 at raising serum 25(OH)D concentrations. Although previous studies that compared the 2 versions of vitamin D indicated a greater effect of vitamin D3 on raising 25(OH)D concentrations, evaluation of potency was inconclusive due to the effects of confounding variables (eg, seasonal solar exposure), insufficient sample size, or both (16-18). In an effort to resolve the uncertainties of earlier work, Trang et al (19) compared the ability of an equal molar dose of vitamin D2 or D3 ( 100 µg, or 4000 IU) to elevate serum 25(OH)D over 2 wk between February and early May, when vitamin D concentrations and solar exposure are minimal. Both vitamin D2 and vitamin D3 increased serum 25(OH)D concentrations, yet the increase in 25(OH)D was found to be 70% greater (1.70 times) with vitamin D3 than the increase obtained with vitamin D2. When adjusted for concomitant changes in an untreated group, the difference between the 2 groups was 2-fold. To further complement these findings, a 3-mo supplementation study by Mastaglia et al (20) found that a dose of 250 µg vitamin D2/d (2.5-fold) was needed to achieve similar serum 25(OH)D concentrations to those of the later study using a dose of 100 µg vitamin D3/d.

4) Elderly people do not utilise Ergocalciferol


Plasma 25-Hydroxyvitamin D Responses of Younger and Older Men to Three Weeks of Supplementation with 1800 IU/day of Vitamin D

This shows us that the uptake of ergocalciferol by older persons (compared to younger people, is not as good and in any event it is D3 the body uses and D3 levels did not change at all.


In simple terms 800iu of ergocalciferol is equivalent to 266iu D3 and this simply is inadequate to show any significant improvement.


The urgent need to recommend an intake of vitamin D that is effective
says 400iu D3 raises status by 7-12nmol/ so it would be reasonable to expect at most 800iu D2 or 266iu D3 to raise status by at most 8nmol/l

In winter the average UK adult white 45 yr old has only 40nmol/l

An overview of the prevalence of 25-hydroxy-vitamin D inadequacy amongst elderly patients with or without fragility fracture in the United Kingdom found a high prevalence of 25-hydroxy-vitamin D inadequacy in older patients with 81.6-92.7% having a level < 50 nmol/L.

It simply isn’t reasonable to expect a mere 8nmol/l rise in the status of profoundly deficient patients to have any measurable impact on quality of life, whereas raising the status of otherwise healthy young Australian men a significant 24nmol/l by using the most effective form of vitamin d3 could be expected to show a difference because those young men, living in a sunnier place nearer the equator, with more days of UVB availability and being physically nearer the sun and with skins better suited to making vitamin d, would be expected to have a vitamin d status nearer to optimal and hence the different impact of D3 on raising them over that threshold.

The answer you provide an indirect link to this paper
Vitamin D vs broad spectrum phototherapy in the treatment of seasonal affective disorder.
Eight subjects received 100,000 I.U. of vitamin D and seven subjects received phototherapy.
As Hollis was on the team we know he uses D3
Note also the research took place in Maryland lat 39N (more days UVB availability than UK)
Improvement in 25-OH D was significantly associated with improvement in depression scale scores (r2=0.26; p=0.05)

100,000iu given in a single dose would one month later be equivalent to 3333iu/d
using an average of 9nmol/L rise for each 400iu/d vitamin d3 it’s reasonable to predict those on the vitamin d arm raised status by 72nmol/L. This is a significant amount and likely to bring patient up to optimal status if they were around 53nmol/l

Simply dismissing this paper as a “small, short, single-blind, randomised-controlled trial” while accurate this isn’t helpful. It would be as accurate to state that
depression was alleviated in patients receiving vitamin D at effective levels of supplementation with the most effective form of Vitamin D3 at a latitude where more vitamin d from sunlight is generally available.

I think you answer should also have included

Randomized comparison of the effects of the vitamin D3 adequate intake versus 100 mcg (4000 IU) per day on biochemical responses and the wellbeing of patients
This shows that 4000iu/d D3 is effective in improving feelings of wellbeing during the winter at latitude 43N

4000iu/d D3 would raise status 90nmol/l so anyone with a winter status around 40nmol/L would then be raised happily and effectively to around the optimal 125nmol/l status level.

<snip> personal details<snip

I am not a health professional. I am a patient with seasonal depression kept controlled by using effective levels of Vitamin d supplementation in the winter. 5000iu/daily cholecalciferol. bio‑tech Pharmacal Inc. because this has made such as difference to not only my mood but also my fatigue levels I continue to study and comment online on the latest vitamin d research.


You may find it helpful to have your staff listen to the presentation here
Vitamin D deficiency The Cause of Everything.

I accept this is a presentation for students but I think maybe your staff would find it instructive and a basis for further study.

PS: While I try to be diplomatic, I wonder if the style of my presentation to official bodies, tends rather than acting as a stimulus for change simply gets up their noses and is counterproductive. If anyone cares to PM me constructive criticism as to ways I should modify my approach to make my attempts at persuasion more effective I'd appreciate it.

BigMummaF

I'm bumping this because someone was asking about these on another thread & I don't know how to do the post-link thing!