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Flying Freehold not Fireproof
Options
ggpowell2
Posts: 24 Forumite
I have had an offer accepted on a mid terrace house and when I first viewed it was clear there was some overlap with next door as the property I am buying had a cupboard under their stairs for the fuse box and a built in wardrobe upstairs seemed to be over their stairs as there was then a boxed in part which is where their stairs come up. I thought I was benefitting from extra space over their property but naively had no idea of a flying freehold etc. anyway.
Turns out after viewing with a builder for some other work I want to do to the property once it is mine that he believes that land would be my freehold and they are creeping/flying, as measuring from the window downstairs to the wall and doing the same outside clearly shows their stairs come beyond my roof line and the line where the houses are painted. He inspected the wall upstairs and believes that where the wardrobe goes above their stairs it cannot be brick and doesn't seem to be fireproof, just a stud wall which seems very bizarre to me as it was a well known threat in terraced lofts and why everyone got their lofts blocked up to prevent similar risks in terraces years ago! I have downloaded both the property I am purchasing and next door's title register from the land registry but am not sure if this is the full document as neither mention a flying freehold or any arrangement, next door's simply mentions easements but I am not sure this can count as an easement because I cannot use the land they have as it is inside their house.
Not sure what I can do as I believe it has been like this for over 20 years so cannot really ask them to move their stairs but am very concerned about the fire risk? Has anyone ever had a similar issue, do I have any right to make them move their stairs, perhaps if I contribute/pay them to, or even if they do not move the full distance can I ask that we split the land 50/50, they gain some freehold land and we both gain from being able to have a straight fireproof wall between us? The builder thought maybe I could have it put into the deeds that when their property is next sold the land has to return to me and the wall reinstated, is this something that can be done or not because they bought it like that? The builder said at the moment their stairs unlikely have nothing that can support bricks above so I cannot simply make my edge fireproof, are they any other options?
Also, I wonder if the loss of the use of what would be my freehold space (and space I believed I was getting as seems the estate agent measured inside the cupboard and wardrobe) and the impact on future sales could negotiate me a discount-has anyone successfully done so and if so how much did you manage percentage wise, please?
I know I can get my surveyor/solicitor to look into this (not done yet as mortgage got delayed) but as a FTB I am wondering if I even instruct and lose more money or just pull out (although the location is exactly what I want) so hoping to get some idea of potential solutions before making my mind up.
Turns out after viewing with a builder for some other work I want to do to the property once it is mine that he believes that land would be my freehold and they are creeping/flying, as measuring from the window downstairs to the wall and doing the same outside clearly shows their stairs come beyond my roof line and the line where the houses are painted. He inspected the wall upstairs and believes that where the wardrobe goes above their stairs it cannot be brick and doesn't seem to be fireproof, just a stud wall which seems very bizarre to me as it was a well known threat in terraced lofts and why everyone got their lofts blocked up to prevent similar risks in terraces years ago! I have downloaded both the property I am purchasing and next door's title register from the land registry but am not sure if this is the full document as neither mention a flying freehold or any arrangement, next door's simply mentions easements but I am not sure this can count as an easement because I cannot use the land they have as it is inside their house.
Not sure what I can do as I believe it has been like this for over 20 years so cannot really ask them to move their stairs but am very concerned about the fire risk? Has anyone ever had a similar issue, do I have any right to make them move their stairs, perhaps if I contribute/pay them to, or even if they do not move the full distance can I ask that we split the land 50/50, they gain some freehold land and we both gain from being able to have a straight fireproof wall between us? The builder thought maybe I could have it put into the deeds that when their property is next sold the land has to return to me and the wall reinstated, is this something that can be done or not because they bought it like that? The builder said at the moment their stairs unlikely have nothing that can support bricks above so I cannot simply make my edge fireproof, are they any other options?
Also, I wonder if the loss of the use of what would be my freehold space (and space I believed I was getting as seems the estate agent measured inside the cupboard and wardrobe) and the impact on future sales could negotiate me a discount-has anyone successfully done so and if so how much did you manage percentage wise, please?
I know I can get my surveyor/solicitor to look into this (not done yet as mortgage got delayed) but as a FTB I am wondering if I even instruct and lose more money or just pull out (although the location is exactly what I want) so hoping to get some idea of potential solutions before making my mind up.
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Also, forgot to add that the neighbours seem to have bought the house for buy to let (second address on title and never seems to be occupied at the moment) and it concerns me that I could be liable for any tenants having accidents on the stairs or similar, how does liability for things like that work on flying freehold land? Do I have a right to know the neighbours have correct insurance to cover this?0
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Seems like you have a very simple choice.
Buy this property, with knowledge of these long-standing (non-)issues...
Don't buy this property.
You can ask for a reduction on the offer you made if you want, but nothing's changed about the property since you made it.0 -
How is not having a fireproof wall between the two houses a non-issue?0
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Get advice on the fireproofing from the builder and don't take any more conveyancing advice from him and he sounds more clueless than you do.
There are fire rated plasterboards available or I think double boarding with ordinary plasterboard is acceptable. There will be simple solutions available to that issue.
The flying freehold situation needs to stay as it is. It isn't uncommon and it isn't time to start getting territorial. You buy what is on offer to you, that is what is for sale
Speak to your solicitor about indemnity policies or other legal options available without you and the neighbour physically swapping bits of houses.Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
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ToasterScheme, I understand that but in my own house I will have control of what is in the rooms and therefore the fire risk, also I thought not having a proper wall between two houses would affect buildings insurance, i.e. do companies insure without proper fireproofing and if so does it increase the cost as that was not in my consideration when I put my offer in which was why I was hoping someone might have insight from their own experience?
Doozergirl, thank you, he didn't mention those kind of fire options just brick but like above I wonder if this is because brick is what insurance companies require or if I just need a different builder?
I am still concerned about the legal liability of anything happening on their stairs on my freehold, does a flying freehold require them to take this liability on?0 -
Seriously, buy a different house. This one is not for you.0
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Seriously, buy a different house. This one is not for you.
Your earlier post made me chuckle, OP if you don't like it buy a detached one seriously. But they are expensive aren't they?
guess you have to buy something in your budget and accept there won't be a perfect house on the market and accept one which at least ticks most of your boxes. No house is perfect unless your a millionaire"It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land/Estate Agents"
G_M/ Bowlhead99 RIP0
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