What Was It

dobbiesloan

I got a call tonight from 07011383636.. It rang twice.. when I tried to call it back I got a message to hold the line we are trying to locaste the person you called ..then music.. I hung up.. was it a rip off or was it a real person?

andy88_2

It's from a range of numbers for personal number service, charged at premium rates, so don't call it any more.

There was a thread recently about the same sort of thing - diverted to a succession of numbers, making you hang on. It's a rip-off. Just the same day as I read that other thread I received a call from a similar number; one single ring that guarantees to the originator that you won't have time tio answer.

In normal operation these numbers are used to divert incoming calls to other numbers, so it seems extremely strange that this number is sent as the originator of the call. I don't know enough about the subject, but I suspect the number ID is spoofed, and this may well be illegal in this case. Perhaps someone with more knowledge would elaborate on this.

I'd like to report it to Ofcom or ICSTIS as abuse. If I'm correct it may even be a criminal act.

The number provider is Allied Telecommunications; perhaps I'll try to find out where they are.

edit - the other thread is on the Warnings & Rip-off Board
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=51371

andy88_2

The number provider is Allied Telecommunications. Google search finds -

Case opened: 20 April 2005
Issue: ICSTIS has alleged that Allied has failed to comply with Directions made by ICSTIS under the ICSTIS Code of Practice and that, as such, Allied is in breach of the condition made by Ofcom under section 120 of the Communications Act 2003 ("the Act") for the purpose of regulating the provision, content, promotion and marketing of premium rate services ("the PRS Condition")

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/bulletins/comp_bull_index/comp_bull_ocases/open_all/cw_827/

ICSTIS has yet to recoup a single penny after fining 16 premium-rate phone services £1.3m following a crackdown on rogue operators.

In March, the premium rate watchdog warned punters to be on their guard against dodgy operators using illegal Automated Calling Equipment (ACE). The ACE was used to call people telling them they had won a cash prize or holiday, but those who fell for the scam ended up phoning expensive phone numbers for nothing.

Using emergency powers, ICSTIS shut down 19 services in all running prize scams. It also managed to fine 16 of the providers a total of £1.3m. At the time ICSTIS director, George Kidd, said that the watchdog had "acted fast to stop the harm".

Today, though, a spokeswoman for ICSTIS admitted that so far the regulator had failed to prize any of the fines from those fingered for the scams. The admission comes as ICSTIS fined three other services £100,000 each for running similar ACE scams over the Easter weekend.

All three - Interiors London, Ocean 3 Ltd and Telecom Promotion - had their services supplied by Allied Telecommunications, the same phone provider linked to the 16 other services. Allied Telecommunications is currently being investigated by telecoms regulator Ofcom. ®

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/20/icstis_scam_fine/

Thanks for making me look this up; I'm going to talk to Ofcom on Tuesday and I strongly suggest you do too. As you've made a return call you'll have the exact date on the bill. Mine was on 7th May.

It can hardly be coincidence that so many dodgy operators that have been fined have business links with this one company.

andy88_2

I just emailed Ofcom as follows (via webpage below)

"I received a call on my mobile phone on 7 May from 07011396186. By coincidence I had only a few minutes earlier read on a forum website of someone receiving a call from a similar number. In both cases the phone gave one ring only. Clearly they intend that people call them back (at premium rates). I've just read again of something similar and looked into it a bit more. I notice that several companies fined recently by ICSTIS are associated with this provider. Can you tell me how it is possible for the 07011 number to be shown as the origin of the call? I would have thought this could only be done by spoofing the number and may actually be illegal. Thank you for your attention; this is preliminary notice that I will contact you on Tuesday to discuss this further."

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/advice/contact/telephony_complaint_query

monomer

andy88 wrote:

...In normal operation these numbers are used to divert incoming calls to other numbers, so it seems extremely strange that this number is sent as the originator of the call.

I have a personal number on the 07010 range and the company that provides it have something called DND ([size=-1]Dialled Number Display)[/size], which allows the recipient's caller display to show the dialled personal number instead of Calling Line Identity (intended for you to know if someone's calling you on one of your personal numbers so you can decide whether to answer it or not). For example, I usually give my personal number out to companies, so can set a different ringtone on my mobile when I get called via my personal number and I know there's no real rush to answer it.

It seems fairly unlikely that this is illegal if it's a feature offered by a company to its customers, but then again, I'm no expert!

pricefighter

Yes it is technically possible to present a number to you, other then the actual geographical no that is ringing.Thats how somemtimes on your CLI or when you dial 1471 you will see/hear a non geographic 0800/0845/0870 type number, or a 09 premium no.

Turning to this particular problem the Vast Majority of Personal Number Suppliers will not share revenue with the end user in accordance with Ofcoms ruling.Allied are usually the supplier in these situation,as Andy 88 explains.They are under investigation by Oftel.But Oftel are not the fastest of beasts.


For the unfamilar the PSEUDO PREMIUM RATE NO SCAM objective is to get you to ring an expensive personal number for a longish time, so the renter of the number can pinch from the caller a share of the money made from the call.

If you see any mobile type numbers appearing that dont start 077/078/079 be careful about ringing them folks.

Allieds range of numbers start 070112/070113!!!! They also supply 09 premium rate numbers many of which have resulted in complaints to ICTIS.

monomer

I quite agree, this scam of presenting a personal number on the caller ID with the intention of enticing the recipient to call it back and then gain revenue from this to the detriment of the caller is reprehensible. The more people who know about not calling these numbers out of curiosity, the better!

Despite the fact that it may be perfectly above-board to show a non-geographical number on the caller ID, it would appear that andy88's concern about spoofing the caller ID is also technically possible. I read an article last year about the relatively unregulated area of Voice-over-IP (VoIP) services and how it is easy for people using VoIP in the US to "make their phone calls appear to be from any number they want, and even pierce the veil of Caller ID blocking to unmask an anonymous phoner's unlisted number." The regulations on VoIP services in this country may be tighter, but I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't.

bbb_uk

It is obviously a scam but the facility to present the CLI of the personal number is nothing new. As mentioned in an earlier post, companies that offer the likes of 087x numbers can offer the facility for the 087 number to be shown. I don't therefore believe it to be illegal to display these numbers. Obviously using it to entice that person to ring back is though.

I also agree with an earlier post that OfCOM will take ages to investigate as they did with AuctionWorld. By the time OfCOM got round to issuing a fine to AuctionWorld, a lot more people had ordered from them and now are probably never going to get their money back because the fine by OfCOM was so hefty that they just went into receivership.

monomer

Just stumbled across this document on the ofcom website:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/advice/telecoms_ifc/telephony_con_guides/cli/#a

Of interest is Annex A, which describes 'Presentation numbers'.

Unlike a network number, a presentation number will not necessarily identify a call's point of ingress to a public network. However it may well carry more useful information.

I suppose it depends on your meaning of 'useful'. :rolleyes:

simon_hzero

Its probably best to take the attitude that if it's someone you don't know, and they need to contact you, they would leave a message on your answerphone or call back later.

I make it clear on my answerphone that "You have called Simon's answerphone, leave a message...." , so if they call a wrong number they won't bother to leave a message.

If they don't leave a message, then don't bother calling them back.

PinkPig

simon_hzero wrote:

If they don't leave a message, then don't bother calling them back.

I know quite a lot of people who hate leaving messages and would always be much happier if I called back - though I agree it's never a good idea if you don't know the number.