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Inherited house and grandmother
Emma_bee
Posts: 2 Newbie
Hi, I really hope you can help me as I can’t find help anywhere with my situation.
My mother died last July leaving a house she had in London to my brother, sister and I, who are all Spanish and live in Spain. She also left her Spanish house to us in Spain.
My grandmother has been living in my mother’s house in London for the past few years since my grandfather died. My mother got my grandmother to sell her house and move to London as it was more central and closer to amenities. My mother was staying with my grandmother so she wasn’t alone, while they were searching for a house for my grandmother.
Then my mother was diagnosed with cancer and she came back to Spain and my brother, sister and I looked after her until she passed away 1 and a half years later. During all this time my mother was encouraging her sisters to help find a place for my grandmother as she wanted to sell her house in London to help pay for her treatment and to save on the inheritance tax for us.
When my mother passed away they still hadn’t found a house for my grandmother.
She left a Will in the uk, with my aunt as executor and to set up a trust and our aunties as trustees leaving the house to us as beneficiaries. The trust was so that my aunties could have more time to find a house for my grandmother and save on the inheritance tax. So my aunties have been in charge of everything so far.
At the end of April we were told by my aunt (the executor) that they put the Spanish Will into probate and because the date on the Will is later than the uk Will, the uk Will has now been revoked. So now, they want to do a deed of variation but they need our permission as we are the executors under Spanish law.
Before signing anything we have been investigating what the trust would consist of and we were trying to find out how much of my mother’s money is left. My aunt has been using the money that my mother had left in her account to pay for the property bills, help pay my grandmothers bills for living in the house and for the solicitor. We don’t know what the amounts are or what’s left and we don’t see why they should use my mother’s money to pay for my grandmother’s bills. My grandmother sold her house and had £450,000 in the bank!
As my aunt won’t tell us the expenses or what’s left in the account, we have then discovered that my aunties’ intention was to mortgage the house to pay the bills and expenses until my grandmother dies (she’s 96 this month) and that my grandmother has just given our aunties their share of their inheritance! So they have their inheritance from my grandmother because they were planning on taking out a mortgage against our house and keeping her there.
We don’t mind our grandmother staying there, but we don’t think we should pay for the expenses, especially as she had the money to pay them.
The time has passed and we have to make a decision or we will have to pay the inheritance tax, which is almost due and we don’t have the money to pay it without selling the house.
Our aunt is telling us that we can’t force my grandmother out which we don’t know if that’s true because if we have to pay the inheritance tax... what do we do?
We don’t trust our aunts or the solicitor so we want to find a new one but we don’t know if this is possible.
We also don’t think it’s fair that they’ve taken so long to deal with this so now, it looks like if we have to pay IHT we will also have loads of interest to pay. We don’t know how much time we have and what our options are.
Would really appreciate the help. Thank you.
My mother died last July leaving a house she had in London to my brother, sister and I, who are all Spanish and live in Spain. She also left her Spanish house to us in Spain.
My grandmother has been living in my mother’s house in London for the past few years since my grandfather died. My mother got my grandmother to sell her house and move to London as it was more central and closer to amenities. My mother was staying with my grandmother so she wasn’t alone, while they were searching for a house for my grandmother.
Then my mother was diagnosed with cancer and she came back to Spain and my brother, sister and I looked after her until she passed away 1 and a half years later. During all this time my mother was encouraging her sisters to help find a place for my grandmother as she wanted to sell her house in London to help pay for her treatment and to save on the inheritance tax for us.
When my mother passed away they still hadn’t found a house for my grandmother.
She left a Will in the uk, with my aunt as executor and to set up a trust and our aunties as trustees leaving the house to us as beneficiaries. The trust was so that my aunties could have more time to find a house for my grandmother and save on the inheritance tax. So my aunties have been in charge of everything so far.
At the end of April we were told by my aunt (the executor) that they put the Spanish Will into probate and because the date on the Will is later than the uk Will, the uk Will has now been revoked. So now, they want to do a deed of variation but they need our permission as we are the executors under Spanish law.
Before signing anything we have been investigating what the trust would consist of and we were trying to find out how much of my mother’s money is left. My aunt has been using the money that my mother had left in her account to pay for the property bills, help pay my grandmothers bills for living in the house and for the solicitor. We don’t know what the amounts are or what’s left and we don’t see why they should use my mother’s money to pay for my grandmother’s bills. My grandmother sold her house and had £450,000 in the bank!
As my aunt won’t tell us the expenses or what’s left in the account, we have then discovered that my aunties’ intention was to mortgage the house to pay the bills and expenses until my grandmother dies (she’s 96 this month) and that my grandmother has just given our aunties their share of their inheritance! So they have their inheritance from my grandmother because they were planning on taking out a mortgage against our house and keeping her there.
We don’t mind our grandmother staying there, but we don’t think we should pay for the expenses, especially as she had the money to pay them.
The time has passed and we have to make a decision or we will have to pay the inheritance tax, which is almost due and we don’t have the money to pay it without selling the house.
Our aunt is telling us that we can’t force my grandmother out which we don’t know if that’s true because if we have to pay the inheritance tax... what do we do?
We don’t trust our aunts or the solicitor so we want to find a new one but we don’t know if this is possible.
We also don’t think it’s fair that they’ve taken so long to deal with this so now, it looks like if we have to pay IHT we will also have loads of interest to pay. We don’t know how much time we have and what our options are.
Would really appreciate the help. Thank you.
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Comments
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[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Are you paying the IHT on the house in 10 instalments?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]If so the 1st instalment would have been due last Feb (was this paid?) and the next in Feb 2019 so you have a little time to sort things out.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Sounds like you need your own STEP solicitor in the UK, at least for some initial advise.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]https://www.step.org/member-directory[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]When you do sell the house you may also be liable for Capital Gains Tax if you sell it for more than the agreed probate value.[/FONT]0 -
Thank you for your post and the information. No, they haven!!!8217;t done anything about the IHT yet... they want to keep my grandmother in the house, this is why they want to do the trust and we don!!!8217;t have the money without selling the house. The tax is £420,000. I didn!!!8217;t know we could pay in instalments. What would the quantities be? I will look at your link and contact someone for advice. Thank you so much.0
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[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]IHT is due 6mths after date of death so you should have paid it all last Feb unless you elected to pay by instalments.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]You can do that for the tax on property you have not yet sold by 10 equal annual instalments, the 1st of which is due 6mths after death.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Interest at a current rate of 3%pa is payable on all tax paid after the 1st 6mth period.[/FONT]0 -
As your mother was resident in Spain for the last year and a half of her life, then it is likely that Spanish tax law applies across her entire estate, although the executors should take legal advice in both Spain and the UK, as inheritance and tax laws are very different in the two countries. The U.K. will may not be totally invalid as far as the U.K. property is concerned, it is not unusual to have 2 wills to cover properties in different countries.0
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[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]IHT is due 6mths after date of death so you should have paid it all last Feb unless you elected to pay by instalments.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]You can do that for the tax on property you have not yet sold by 10 equal annual instalments, the 1st of which is due 6mths after death.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Interest at a current rate of 3%pa is payable on all tax paid after the 1st 6mth period.[/FONT]
The OPs mother was not a U.K. resident at the time of death, so I don’t think U.K. IHT applies here,0 -
A very complicated mess!
Emma, you and your siblings need your own solicitor, and quite probably a Spanish lawyer as well. Any legal advice you might get on a forum such as this will not be reliable.0 -
Remember that it is domicile that sometimes matters rather than residence but this is not straightforward.Keep_pedalling wrote: »The OPs mother was not a U.K. resident at the time of death, so I don’t think U.K. IHT applies here,0 -
I agree that you need to get legal advice and I'd suggest that you try to find a solicitor who is qualified in both UK and Spanish Law.
Whether the later Spanish will revokes the UK one may depend on its react wording. It is possible to write a will that relates only to assets in one country but it's uncommon.
Also, you would need to know whether Spanish law allows for a deed of variation, and also whether there is any tax liability either here on in Spain, which may depend on a whole range of factors.
I agree that if your grandmother is living in the house it would seem reasonable, absent any explicit provisions in the will to the contrary, that she pay the outgoings, and if her staying in the house needs your permission then you should be able to negotiate that as part of the terms of the variation, even if the will makes different provisions.
I'm confused as to how they can have put the will into probate if you are the executors under Spanish law - I think you need to get professional advice urgently, so you know what is happening and what your options are.
Google 'dual qualified solicitor, Apain and England', or similar terms, to try to find a suitable solicitor in your area.
Given the number of British Ex Pats in Spain there are plenty of lawyers who can advice in both jurisdictions.All posts are my personal opinion, not formal advice Always get proper, professional advice (particularly about anything legal!)0 -
And I’m a bit confused as to how the aunt/s think they can take out a mortgage on a house that has been bequeathed to you three ‘children’.
Sadly your aunts sound as though they don’t know what they are doing, and could well cost you a lot of money.
Whilst family relations might count for a lot, I suspect your mother’s estate and thus the three of you are being used to fund Grandmother’s living expenses when she has (unless she’s already given it away - which could lead to another can of worms) very adequate funds of her own.
Get legal advice as quickly as you can before it all disappears, and you find yourselves falling foul of HMRC due to your aunts’ incompetence.0 -
Where someone owns property in more than one country, it's very common to have two wills, one for each jurisdiction. They are rarely made at precisely the same moment, nor does the later will necessarily take precedence over the earlier one where they relate to assets in different countries. This is not always the case in Spain, where the testator can decide whether their will just applies to assets in Spain, or worldwide. Not sure from your rather rambling post what the situation is with your mother's will.
You need a solicitor and they need sight of all the documents. Start with a local man in Spain and see how helpful that is; choose a firm with an associated office in England, because the Spanish lawyer may need to cover both jurisdictions.0
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