No completion certificate from conversion

richtann

Hi all, i hoped that i might be able to get some advice from some who are more experienced than me in buying houses...

I'm a first time buyer in the middle of arranging a completion on a property. It turns out that the prpoerty was converted into flats in 1999 and a completion certificate was applied for, but never completed (neither declined or accepted). Our vendor is willing to pay for an indemnity policy, a method that the vendor's solicitor deems more than adequeate, but our solicitor is of the opinion that indemnity policies aren;t wort much at all and advises we get the seller to sort out the certificate.

Which they won't do. Apparently it takes months and requires floors to be ripped up etc etc. There have been at least 2 sales in the building since the conversion and neither have seemed to think this much of a problem.

The thing is, i dont want to be in a position of not being able to sell the house on because of the same issue but we are being told by some that we shouldn;t worry about it?

Does anyone have any advice? Am im i worrying over nothing or is my solicitor right? Should I walk? Hoew diffuicult is it reallt to get a completion certificate?

Really appreciate any advice, i've absilutely no idea what i'm going to do!

Cheers

Rich

pigeonpie

Do you mean that the building inspector never signed it off? Or that it didn't fully comply with planning permission? If the former, we had that and got an indemnity. I *think* Council has about 4 years after which they can't do much about it, but check that with your solicitor, not the vendor's! Don't know your circumstances, but here we have had 10 recent sales and everyone's got an indemnity policy. If it's a breach or non compliance with PP, wouldn't touch it. We had the same angst about it. We went ahead cos the flats in this area sell easily and we had the indemnity (which our solicitor thought was ok). Don't know the circs around your building and council though. anyhow HTH.

sorry, is it a flat or a house? If a house, no idea if the same applies.

Debt_Free_Chick

I don't think you have a hope in hell of getting a local authority building inspector to look at something that was completed 8 (possibly nearly 9) years ago.

The lack of a certificate simply tells you that there is no confirmation that the work was done according to building regulations at that time.

So what - how does this affect you? This is a point that your solicitor should be advising you on.

AFAIK, there is no issue at all. One might argue that the building could be structurally unsafe (the certificate would have confirmed that it wasn't) but if that were the case, then surely the surveyor would have commented?

FWIW, building regs are as much to do with red tape as they are with "good construction standards". They dictate all types of rubbish about insulation, frosted glass in the bog etc. Yes, there are some safety issues in there, but a lot of other crap too.

I agree with your solicitor on the indemnity policy - because the situations you're insuring are unlikely ever to arise. But get your solicitor to explain it all to you so you understand what you're taking on, if you go ahead.

Richard_Webster

The lack of a certificate simply tells you that there is no confirmation that the work was done according to building regulations at that time.

So what - how does this affect you? This is a point that your solicitor should be advising you on.

AFAIK, there is no issue at all. One might argue that the building could be structurally unsafe (the certificate would have confirmed that it wasn't) but if that were the case, then surely the surveyor would have commented?

I agree. You have to distinguish between a concern that there could be something wrong because the certificate wasn't issued and a concern that the Building Inspectors have nothing better to do then investigate 8 year old works in a residential property.

As far as the former point is concerned, remember that there are plenty of older properties with all kinds of things in them that would not pass modern standards, but nobody worries about that.

You need an indemnity policy in relation to the possibility of enforcement (which is almost nil) because lenders do not live in the real world over this issue - see CML Handbook requirements of a typical lender:

5.3 Planning and Building Regulations

5.3.1 You must by making appropriate searches and enquiries take all reasonable steps (including any further enquiries to clarify any issues which may arise) to ensure the property has the benefit of any necessary planning consents (including listed building consent) and building regulation approval for its construction and any subsequent change to the property (see part 2) and its current use; and
5.3.1- Do you limit your requirements in terms of time for:

- planning consents?

No

- building regulation consents?

No

If so please specify your requirements

Nationwide Building Society have a 10 year limitation - I think they the only ones who don't require us to go back forever, but I stand to be corrected. Frankly, as far as building regulations are concerned it is bureaucracy gone mad, but I am only a conveyancing solicitor and I don't think the lenders will listen to me - it is easier for them to impose difficult to comply with bureaucratic requirements which add to everyone's time and mean that we have to charge more for messing about with this kind of thing.

richtann

Hi all, thanks very much for your messages... .

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

So what - how does this affect you? This is a point that your solicitor should be advising you on.

I guess my main problem is that he is advising us against it, but most other things i read seem to say its not really a big deal. I guess i'm predominantly worries about potential buyers being put off in the same way we have been when we come to sell.

The other problem is the fact that you can't contact the council without invalidating the indemnity policy... one of the reasons we tried to buy the place is becasue it has a loft with conversion potential. As i understand it, we couldn;t apply for PP/building approval without cancelling out indemnity policy...

in response to one of the questions, its a flat in a converted property (2 flats) that had very minimal structural work done for the conversion as far as i can tell. Survey did not come back with any issues in this regard

Debt_Free_Chick

richtann wrote: »

I guess my main problem is that he is advising us against it

Ask him "why", "what are the risks?", "what's the worst that could happen?"

It has to be your decision at the end of the day, based on a full understanding of what the worst would be, if you went ahead?

To be honest, all this nonsense is quite new. When I bought in 2002 I didn't get any of this in relation to what I now know is a later addition to the property. No PP, no BC - done in the 70s sometime, to add a single storey extension to the front of the house. Kind of a glorified lean-to, but looks better than it sounds.

There must be tens of thousands - even hundreds of thousands - of properties in the country with precisely this problem. Once it becomes a common occurrence, I think buyers will be less concerned. It will almost get to the point whereby you can't buy a property without this kind of issue - and I very much doubt that people will stop buying.

Get your solicitor to explain the risks, then you decide for yourself

telfordwhite

The problem is (as I have found out since my last move 6 years ago) that nowadays the solicitors will pick up an anything and everything. They advise that all T's are crossed and all I's are dotted.


This may not bother some people who will be happy to ignore say Lack of PP for conservatory or lack of Electrics completion certificates etc but it will put others off. So if you come to sell at a later date the lack of this completion certificate is more than likely to come back and bite you on the bum.

You have more chance of losing your sale at an advanced stage nowadays if you are lacking any paperwork.