Impending end of tenancy questions - old house, no written inventory

SoloStrike

Hi all, got a few questions regarding an upcoming move I'm making from a shared house.

The house has been a constant revolving houseshare for around ten years. I have been there for two, and we are leaving en masse after our quite nice letting agents were taken over by a larger and distinctly less friendly lot who instantly tried to put the rent up by £65 per person. The house is very run down and dated - the kitchen is from what looks like the 70s, there's Artex ceilings, magnolia woodchip everywhere, and some very worn/knackered old green carpets. The entire place frankly needs gutting/razing to the ground and re-doing.

No major work has been carried out in the house whilst I've been there, apart from the 70s-esque dark green toilet was replaced by a more modern white one. The landlord owns hundreds of properties and I have discovered from his workmen that ours is one of the last going with this 'tasteful' decor as the rest have been re-done.

There is no written inventory, instead a series of quite badly taken/blurry pictures from I'm guessing around ten years ago. The pictures actually make the place looks even worse than it currently does - it does not look clean by any standard.

The letting agents are currently making a big thing about the need for professional carpet cleaning/general cleaning/window cleaning for check-out, quoting parts of our contract. They have ominously said we are welcome to try and clean to a professional level if we can, with an undertone of "if you can't, we will charge you the earth". We intend to clean the best we can, but it's the sort of house that will never look fantastically clean as it's so run down.

Would I be right in thinking we just need to return it to the standard we see in the photos and they can be damned for any type of professional cleaning as we can contest it? I'm thinking the lack of written inventory, claiming reasonable wear & tear and that no major work has been carried out in the past five years should do it. I'm a bit worried as all of our dealings so far with them have been difficult and demanding. Would hiring a carpet cleaner etc to suck up the ten years of people walking about be a good idea, or a waste of money as there's no inventory?

Any advice gratefully received, and yes I am quite pleased to be leaving!

G_M

1) joint tenancy? All names on the contract?
2) England/Wales?
3) Fixed term? end date?
4) or periodic? Notice served how/when
5) was a new tenancy agreed 2 years ago? or you just 'took over' from someone? Are you actually named on a tenancy agreement? Dated when?
6) You leave the property in the same (or better) condittion as at the start. If no inventory, hard for the landlord to compare so hard to justify deductions
7) wear & tear is allowable. After2 years I'd expect some. after 10 years I'd expect a lot (but your tenancy started 2 years ago.....)
8) is the deposit registered?



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* Deposits: payment, protection and return

SoloStrike

Hi, thanks for the reply!

It's a joint tenancy, all 4 of us current tenants are named on the contract.

It's in England.

It's a year long fixed term contract and it ends the last day of June. We declined to sign a new one as that's when they wanted to start putting the rent up by so much.

The way it's worked is that people have come and gone over the years, and when someone new joins, usually at the end of a year tenancy period, a new contract/tenancy is then drawn up for a year. Yes, we are all named on the current tenancy. No-one in the house has been there longer than two years, but it's been rolling on as a houseshare for ten. No new inventory/pictures have been taken - the only thing the letting agents have are the ancient and not great pictures from God knows when.

Yes, the deposit is registered.

westernpromise

I don't see how they can prove the condition of the house when you took it on, then.

pmlindyloo

SoloStrike wrote: »

Hi, thanks for the reply!

It's a joint tenancy, all 4 of us current tenants are named on the contract.

It's in England.

It's a year long fixed term contract and it ends the last day of June. We declined to sign a new one as that's when they wanted to start putting the rent up by so much.

The way it's worked is that people have come and gone over the years, and when someone new joins, usually at the end of a year tenancy period, a new contract/tenancy is then drawn up for a year. Yes, we are all named on the current tenancy. No-one in the house has been there longer than two years, but it's been rolling on as a houseshare for ten. No new inventory/pictures have been taken - the only thing the letting agents have are the ancient and not great pictures from God knows when.

Yes, the deposit is registered.

Before you leave make sure that you take photographs of everything. Since there are four of you then share out the task so that you get detailed pictures.

I agree that if the only pictures are from 10 years ago then, if this is raised as a dispute with the deposit scheme, you can show your pictures to prove your points and the landlord would have a very hard job getting deductions.

If you can afford it then have the carpets cleaned professionally (same with oven)- others will say it's not needed but I am all for the least hassle possible in these circumstances - you can show the receipts to LA. Also good if you are all busy people.

Just my opinion - I am a bit of a clean freak - couldn't leave a rented property without cleaning up my 'mess'.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

If there's no proper inventory, just poor quality photos, then I don't see how they can provide proof you've left it in a worse state.

To show goodwill on your side of the contract; clean thoroughly, paying particular attention to the oven. The hire of a steam cleaner for the carpets between 4 shouldn't be too much, keep the receipt.

Then contest any deposit dispute via the correct process; on such an old property they will not be able to claim much, if any, betterment.

SoloStrike

Thanks all. Photos are a great idea, I definitely think if the old ones are compared to the check out ones we take, ours will look better.

We are planning to hire a steam cleaner and give the house a going over. The letting agents have advised against this, instead recommending their own professional carpet cleaner - they are bound to get a kickback for this we think, so are avoiding going down this path.

The oven is about a year old if that and will not be difficult to clean to a very high standard ourselves.

We move out end of June, will update the thread if it gets a bit interesting!

smem18

As others have said, be gracious on moving out and give the place a REALLY good clean. Keep all your receipts for the steam cleaner and any cleaning materials you purchase. Take detailed photos of everything. And I mean everything.

Remember that if it comes to dispute, it is up to the landlord to prove that you have caused damaged beyond normal wear and tear whilst you were at the property. You don't actually have to prove anything and would only have to show evidence that you left the property in the condition it was when you moved in (so photos of cleanliness and the receipts). Old worn carpets, scuffs on the walls and small chips to paint and all unlikely to qualify as any more than fair wear and tear. Furthermore, the landlord is going to have a seriously difficult time proving anything at all if:
a) There is no signed inventory from the dates you actually moved in.
b) Not even any photos from the dates you moved in. When did your other housemates move in, because if the photos are 10 years old and no one was actually there 10 years ago, then the photos are completely useless to the landlord as they prove nothing about the state of the property when you guys moved in there.

I think you're on pretty solid ground here and don't need to worry. They'll try and bully you when you move out but just be professional and if you disagree with them, explain you will open a dispute via whatever deposit protection service your deposit is in, and an impartial adjudicator will make the decisions.

SoloStrike

Thanks for the info. One person has moved out a month early, so we've started a very intensive clean today!

No-one's lived in the house for longer than two years, so I agree that photos from a very long time ago could be slightly irrelevant.

One thing my girlfriend who used to live in the house has reminded me of is that upon moving in, the LA asked us to confirm through email that the previous tenants had caused no damage. The process of the new tenants doing this meant the old ones would have their full deposit released, no further questions asked and no inspections/checks of the house/inventory update happened. Is this likely to impact anything?

trevormax

My old landlord tried it on when I moved out of my last rented house. He had no check in inventory, no photographs, and no evidence of the property condition when I started the tenancy. He also did not do a check-out inventory, despite me asking and making my self available for it.
I deep-cleaned the house, but it had not been refurbished or updated by the landlord for 10+ years. He was a bully and tried to claim the entire deposit.
I disputed it and asked for him to provide evidence. He had none, so I won the entire deposit back.

When it comes to moving out day, and the agents come to do a check out (if they even do that), and they are saying damage this, and dirty that, and deductions all over the place, as them in a nice, sweet voice, to provide a check in inventory/photographs of the property condition from when you moved in. Maybe even make an off-hand comment about how difficult/impossible it would be for the landlord to prove anything without such evidence.

Do the decent thing of course and leave it in a clean condition, but dont spend money on the clean, since the landlord is likely going to gut the place to update it anyway. I personally wouldn't even bother getting a steam cleaner.

SoloStrike

Sounds like a similar situation. I'm hoping the landlord will be reasonable but I suspect the LA will push for as much money as possible. It's good to know that we are in a good position to contest it.

Amazingly it's not being gutted and redone. They held about about a billion viewings to students and a group have taken it for silly money per month. We couldn't believe it.