Broken car refund refused.

Spidey999

Sorry this is a long waffle

So we travelled to Car Supermarket in Northampton from Kings Lynn in Norfolk on 24th May 2018 to view a car i had reserved. It is an electric car, a Nissan Leaf. We took the car for a test drive. At this point we had been advised it had been charged overnight and should have a full battery. On the test drive it showed 65 miles on the display before the battery ran out. A full charge should hold 85+ on this year and mileage. We assumed that the car would need some further charging and planned to stop on our way home to top up the battery. We purchased the car that day. We were on a tight time schedule as our disabled son washed home from school. We commenced our drive home with 61 miles in battery life on the dashboard. We set the sat nav for our home address and 2 miles into the journey the cars sat nav started to tell us we did not have enough miles on the battery to get home which is a 60 mile journey. We watched the mileage/battery charge drop from 60 to 31 (70% to 20% instantly including the battery health bars dropped). We decided to return to the dealer as we were so close and that something must be wrong with the car. We spoke to staff about the car and that we were unhappy to drive 60 miles in a car that is unfit and not working properly, the staff spoke to the service technicians and they were all unsure why this may have happened and had no knowledge of electric cars. We had part exchanged another car and that was returned to us so we could get home.

On the journey home myself and my wife discussed the car and decided we had lost faith in the car as if it is broken now, we feel it could have other problems. We telephoned the dealer and advised them we would like a refund as we had only driven the car 2 miles away, it was faulty and we were not happy to have the car back. I spoke with the customer services manager, who advised me i could not have a refund unless there is a proven problem with the car, in reference to consumer rights. I explained that i have no confidence in the car because within 2 miles of buying it it had developed a fault. I explained numerous times i felt that the car was not fit for purpose and was advised about my consumer rights each time. And refused a refund, I ended the call as i felt i was getting know where and had already had a very very stressful experience.

I called back the following day Friday 25th May to discuss my options. I was advised that the car was booked in to the local Nissan dealership for assessment as none of the service technicians at carshop are EV trained. Ian advised it was going to Nissan on the 29th May 2018 to be looked at.

I called Nissan in Northampton Today 29th May to explain what happened and was advised by the service manager that the leaf is booked into them but not until 28/06/18. I was not advised this by the dealer I bought the car from. I feel that over a 4 week delay is unfair and unreasonable to pay for a car that i cannot use, have not used and cannot get a refund. I have been informed that once we find out in 4 weeks if the car has a fault i can then have a refund.

They offer a 7 day exchange if you don’t like the car and can swap it for a different car on their site. (They have no other electric cars)

Further to this I contacted (customer services assistant manager) at Northampton today as the manager is away. I asked for written conformation that my 7 day exchange would not start until the car has been assessed and the results of wether its a fault of not were known. I was advised that the 7 days starts from the day after purchase and that this cannot be changed. I explained that i feel this is unfair as I'm being forced into deciding if i want to pick another car now or wait and take a chance of being stuck with a car that i personally feel is faulty and not be able to get my refund.

So, I feel that waiting over 4 weeks is an unfair and unreasonable amount of time to wait, it is beyond the 30 days consumer rights limit and i feel that a refund would be the right and fair thing to do.

So i would like to reject the car as not fit for purpose and want my money returned. I have a disabled child that i need to get about safely and in a reliable vehicle, i cannot take the chance on a car that has let me down in the first 2 miles of driving it.

We feel the Dealer is forcing us to make a second best choice from one of their cars and taking our choice away, our needs are quite particular due to our disabled son, and they are definiatly NOT putting the customer first. They were very interested in us then when they wanted our money and now we feel they couldn't care less now they have it.

Do I have any right to demand a refund as unfit for perpouse and an unreasonable time to wait untill investigation??

Sorry for the waffle!!!

Aylesbury_Duck

Have you got experience of owning and driving electric cars? The range will only ever be an estimate and will vary on the way it has been and is driven. For example, my (diesel) car will show anything from 550-650 miles as a range on a full tank, based on the average mpg since the counter was last reset. If I've done a lot of economical motorway cruising, the next tank will show a range of 650 miles whereas if I've had a recent load of trips of stop-start urban driving, the next tank's nominal range will be lower. I might get more or less than was indicated at the fill-up but the point is that it has to estimate it on something which in my car's case is its recent economy.

Setting off on a 60 mile journey with only 61 miles of estimated range showing was never a good idea. I'm sure you wouldn't do that with a petrol engine car if you knew there were no fuel stations on the route. If you drove in a particular fashion on those first two miles, the computer will have revised its range estimate. I don't think you can say that the car is faulty after driving it for two miles and basing its battery health on the estimate of range.

You say that you depleted the charge on the test drive but bought the car that day, in a tight timeframe? How long was it charged between the test drive and you setting off home?

neilmcl

There's two parts to this. Firstly you want to reject because of a fault, however at this point a fault has yet to be determined, furthermore as you want to use your short-term right to reject the vehicle the reality is that the onus is on you to prove a fault exists and was present at time of purchase.

The point is you want to reject the car because it's taking a unreasonable time to investigate the issue. Any remedy they provide must not cause you a significant inconvenience, that's true, however you've stated that they've returned your old car to you in the meantime so not much of an inconvenience then.

Spidey999

It works differently with electric. For example if your phone suddenly dropped from 70% charge to 20% instantly without changing what you were doing. You would think something not right.
We had planned to stop at the services to fast charge the car on the way home and had left time to do this. (The time scale was fine until the dealer started messing about)
I!!!8217;ve spoken to Nissan and multipl electric vehicle owners who feel that there is something not right.
No I wouldn!!!8217;t expect to do a 60 mile journey on 61 miles of fuel. A fully charged battery should be 85+ miles and I had planned to charge on route.
But you wouldn!!!8217;t expect you diesel gauge to go from full to half instantly either would you!?!

The question was that there appears to be a fault, the dealer is refusing a refund but is not getting the car looked at untill after my 30 days consumer rights time limit is up,
I feel this is unfair and unreasonable.

Aylesbury_Duck

No, I wouldn't expect my diesel gauge to go from full to half instantly, but it wouldn't do that because the gauge measures the amount of liquid in the tank. Your Leaf estimates the range in the battery based on its charge capacity and the driving conditions. It's the range that is important and in a standard fuel car that will fluctuate according to conditions. In an electric car with only 61 miles of range to start with, there's not much margin to work with.

You have yet to prove there is an inherent fault and my reading of the situation is that there might not be. How much experience do you have of electric vehicles? Do you know how the car was used before you bought it? Had it been used and charged according to recommended practices? It's possible there is an inherent problem and if that's the case, you will be entitled to a full refund but if the symptoms are just a consequence of how the car was charged and driven prior to you buying it and the battery is otherwise healthy, you have fewer options.

neilmcl

Spidey999 wrote: »

It works differently with electric. For example if your phone suddenly dropped from 70% charge to 20% instantly without changing what you were doing. You would think something not right.
We had planned to stop at the services to fast charge the car on the way home and had left time to do this. (The time scale was fine until the dealer started messing about)
I!!!8217;ve spoken to Nissan and multipl electric vehicle owners who feel that there is something not right.
No I wouldn!!!8217;t expect to do a 60 mile journey on 61 miles of fuel. A fully charged battery should be 85+ miles and I had planned to charge on route.
But you wouldn!!!8217;t expect you diesel gauge to go from full to half instantly either would you!?!

The question was that there appears to be a fault, the dealer is refusing a refund but is not getting the car looked at untill after my 30 days consumer rights time limit is up,
I feel this is unfair and unreasonable.

Your 30 days is on pause until the fault has been determined and a remedy has been agreed upon.

arcon5

Why would op need to prove anything? I thought the onus was on the dealer for the first 6 months

shaun_from_Africa

arcon5 wrote: »

Why would op need to prove anything? I thought the onus was on the dealer for the first 6 months

Not when using your short term right of rejection (the first 30 days).
When rejecting goods during this period, the consumer is required to prove that a fault exists.

Blackbeard_of_Perranporth

Batteries wear out. Your batteries in your milk float need replacing. Unfortunately the LiIon batteries are notorious for disposal. The car looks green until you start taking it apart.


You could ask for replacement batteries, but I suspect, just like I do with my polluting petrol car, I run the thing into the ground and then get rid. Obviously the previous owner has done the same with this one!

shaun_from_Africa

With a replacement battery costing £4000+, I can't see that the car seller would consider doing this.
I agree that the previous owner had seen what was coming and decided to get rid of the car pronto.

marliepanda

We have a 2018 Leaf.

The range is 180 miles on city driving and 120 miles on the motorway.

I'm not sure why you replied to someones similar comment about driving style in their car with 'electric cars work differently' as they dont....