Can anyone help me with this BT phone line installation, please?

vet8

About 5 years ago we converted a stable block into a home. This is on an unadopted road and the building is behind another house so it is about 30 yards from the road. We tried to get a phone line installed, but gave up as it was such a fiasco. I have satellite broadband, but it is pretty useless so I decided to try again with BT. What a joke!

Even though I had said we were some way off the road they sent out an engineer to attach the phone, the first thing he said was," I can't do that as you are too far away from the nearest pole.!"

They then sent an Open Reach engineer who did not even come in the gate and spent more time talking to a neighbour than me. He said they could not erect new poles for us as the power cables are above where the poles would go and they could not dig up the road for the cables without written consent from the road owner. Now we had this with our previous application.

There is no road owner. The original road was constructed over 100 years ago by a company which has disappeared decades ago. One of our neighbours spent a great deal of time researching this and could not find the owner at all. When we had our house converted we had the road dug up for the power cables and the water mains without asking any owner. British Gas laid gas mains in the road several years ago and clearly did not contact the owner. Why is BT so paranoid about it?

The engineer said "leave it to me" and left. We then heard nothing for 2 months! until I got a weird text saying that I have to contact the neighbour to ask permission!

Now apart from wondering what Open Reach have been doing this past 2 months, it seems to me to be preferable for him to get a formal letter from BT than me just asking him. I would be unable to answer any questions he had about it for example. But there is also the major problem that I do not know which neighbour they are talking about. There is a self-appointed group of busybody nimbies who fill in potholes in the road. The engineer said he would ask them. I don't think they have any say over who can dig up the road, they are like a group of people getting together to pick up litter.

The engineer also said he could ask our neighbour to dig up his grass verge, even though that's not his property - it is part of the road. I suggested coming in from a different pole and throwing a cable above the hedgeline between 2 other neighbour's properties - so there are potentially 4 different people we could ask.

Now, we are in Groundhog Day. I have phoned BT so many times that I have had to top up my phone twice in one week and I have got nowhere. Every time I call I get their call centre where they are very pleasant, but totally unable to help. They repeat parrot fashion, "There is third party involvement. We cannot continue until you have got permission from your neighbour." I ask, "Which neighbour?" and they don't know, I have held on while they talk to Open Reach for ages and no-one seems to know. I have been given 4 different dates when they will review what is happening, I have been told to call back tomorrow several times and every single bloody time I get the same answer. No-one can tell me which neighbour.

They are now threatening to cancel the order unless I have resolved this by the 1st of June, but I have no way of moving forward. They refuse to give me a number so I can talk to Open Reach, I have tried e-mailing, texting, phoning and live chat. The live chat man promised me he would get back the next day with an answer- nothing at all. Someone mentioned the neighbour needs to sign a form, what form? It is just chaos and has been for 3 months.

Any got any ideas PLEASE.

ValiantSon

Openreach are required to provide a line. As long as the cost to them of installation does not exceed £3,400 they must charge you the standard line installation fee. If the cost exceeds £3,400 then the customer must pay the sum above this. However, to provide a line to your property requires them to carry out works on land that is not public and is not owned by you, i.e. a third party. They cannot carry out that work without a wayleave from the land owner, giving them permission to do so. This will be the form that they want signed.

They should be the ones chasing the wayleave, as they are the ones who know where the works need to be carried out. If they won't do this then make a formal complaint and, on deadlock, take your complaint to Ofcom.

Be aware that the internet speed provided on a new ADSL connection may not be that great. Your distance from the exchange will be the biggest determining factor. It sounds like you live in a rural area and you may well find that the speed you get is poor.

iniltous

Is your property correctly registered with a postcode and does it specifically appear on the Royal Mails address register ?, this should have been done when it was converted into a dwelling by whoever developed the site.
You dismiss the unadopted road as a bit of a non issue, and because the Gas Utility company didn't worry about permission to dig, then Openreach (who are responsible for providing service not 'BT' ) should take a laissez-faire approach too, but TBH, no responsible company should do that.

Quite often , in situations like this, OR could suggest, or you could ask to be supplied with an armoured cable and given instruction on the depth of cover it needs to installed at etc, you then install the cable from your property to the roadside (you getting the permissions should the cable go through private property and maybe employ a contractor to do the excavation etc ) and when that's done , OR connect up that cable to the network in 'the public footway/carriageway'..this approach can be used if the excess construction costs are large , over and above the £3400 OR contribute, you would need a 'survey officer' to arrange the delivery of a length of cable should you use this approach.

In a way, should your address be a valid residential address with the PO , then OR's USO (Universal Service Obligation) should apply , but there are limitations on costs, and permissions should a third party need to consent to OR kit being installed (otherwise OR could be blackmailed by the landowner only giving consent if a huge wayleave payment was received )

BT are one of many Communication Providers, all have identical paths into Openreach, so if you feel BT are failing , you could always try someone else ( Sky, TT etc)

vet8

ValiantSon wrote: »

Openreach are required to provide a line. As long as the cost to them of installation does not exceed £3,400 they must charge you the standard line installation fee. If the cost exceeds £3,400 then the customer must pay the sum above this. However, to provide a line to your property requires them to carry out works on land that is not public and is not owned by you, i.e. a third party. They cannot carry out that work without a wayleave from the land owner, giving them permission to do so. This will be the form that they want signed.

They should be the ones chasing the wayleave, as they are the ones who know where the works need to be carried out. If they won't do this then make a formal complaint and, on deadlock, take your complaint to Ofcom.

Be aware that the internet speed provided on a new ADSL connection may not be that great. Your distance from the exchange will be the biggest determining factor. It sounds like you live in a rural area and you may well find that the speed you get is poor.

Yes I would have thought BT should be chasing up the wayleave, I cannot really do it. I am aware the broadband might be slow but it must be better than the satellite link I have at the moment.

vet8

iniltous wrote: »

Is your property correctly registered with a postcode and does it specifically appear on the Royal Mails address register ?, this should have been done when it was converted into a dwelling by whoever developed the site.
You dismiss the unadopted road as a bit of a non issue, and because the Gas Utility company didn't worry about permission to dig, then Openreach (who are responsible for providing service not 'BT' ) should take a laissez-faire approach too, but TBH, no responsible company should do that.

Quite often , in situations like this, OR could suggest, or you could ask to be supplied with an armoured cable and given instruction on the depth of cover it needs to installed at etc, you then install the cable from your property to the roadside (you getting the permissions should the cable go through private property and maybe employ a contractor to do the excavation etc ) and when that's done , OR connect up that cable to the network in 'the public footway/carriageway'..this approach can be used if the excess construction costs are large , over and above the £3400 OR contribute, you would need a 'survey officer' to arrange the delivery of a length of cable should you use this approach.

In a way, should your address be a valid residential address with the PO , then OR's USO (Universal Service Obligation) should apply , but there are limitations on costs, and permissions should a third party need to consent to OR kit being installed (otherwise OR could be blackmailed by the landowner only giving consent if a huge wayleave payment was received )

BT are one of many Communication Providers, all have identical paths into Openreach, so if you feel BT are failing , you could always try someone else ( Sky, TT etc)

We do have a postcode and pay Council Tax. we are an official address.

It is not the cost of the installation I am concerned about, but the ludicrous thing about permission to dig up the road. According to a house of commons paper I read our road is still a highway and a road like any public road. No one is allowed to stop public utilities from digging it up to lay cables etc.

People can ask for the work to be delayed, but cannot stop it. There is no road owner as whoever it was is impossible to find out. We need a phone and BT are doing nothing about it. I would not object so much if they were doing SOMETHING, anything and not just expecting me to magic the road owner out of thin air.

I should say I am also worried because our power cable goes under the grass verge and under our drive where they are talking about sticking their cable. If they damage our power cable who is responsible?

ValiantSon

vet8 wrote: »

Yes I would have thought BT should be chasing up the wayleave, I cannot really do it. I am aware the broadband might be slow but it must be better than the satellite link I have at the moment.

What kind of download and upload speeds are you getting via satellite? You should be getting a reasonable rate.

How far are you from the exchange? You might want to check this before going any further in getting a line installed, along with the expected connection speed at that distance. It might turn out not to be worth it.

Have you considered mobile broadband? Depending on signal strength in your area this could be an alternative. For example, 3 will give you 40GB data for £24 p/m; or O2 will give you 50GB data for £31 per month; or Vodafone will give you 50GB for £30 per month.

vet8 wrote: »

I should say I am also worried because our power cable goes under the grass verge and under our drive where they are talking about sticking their cable. If they damage our power cable who is responsible?

If they cause damage then they are responsible. The power distribution company would need to come out and sort it, but you would not be responsible.

vet8

ValiantSon wrote: »

What kind of download and upload speeds are you getting via satellite? You should be getting a reasonable rate.

How far are you from the exchange? You might want to check this before going any further in getting a line installed, along with the expected connection speed at that distance. It might turn out not to be worth it.

Have you considered mobile broadband? Depending on signal strength in your area this could be an alternative. For example, 3 will give you 40GB data for £24 p/m; or O2 will give you 50GB data for £31 per month; or Vodafone will give you 50GB for £30 per month.

Unfortunately where we live there is NO mobile signal at all on any provider. That is partly why I want a landline as we have no emergency phone at all.

The satellite broadband is very erratic and slow, but when we had a house next door and were on landline the internet was O.K. -certainly better than the satellite.

ValiantSon

vet8 wrote: »

Unfortunately where we live there is NO mobile signal at all on any provider. That is partly why I want a landline as we have no emergency phone at all.

The satellite broadband is very erratic and slow, but when we had a house next door and were on landline the internet was O.K. -certainly better than the satellite.

Fair enough.

I hope that you get it sorted.

Mister_G

You may find that one of the more reputable ISPs like A&A or Zen, who seem to be better at pursuing OR, may be able to get a result.

Of course, they are more expensive, but it looks like may be worth the extra.

iniltous

Would it be possible to serve you property by overhead means, if the drop wire could be routed from the pole, via a neighbour's property, to yours ?, if that is feasible, perhaps you could speak to them to grant OR permission and sign a wayleave, that could be why one of the OR people spent time speaking to your neighbour, perhaps they refused permission initially, but could be persuaded by yourself

vet8

iniltous wrote: »

Would it be possible to serve you property by overhead means, if the drop wire could be routed from the pole, via a neighbour's property, to yours ?, if that is feasible, perhaps you could speak to them to grant OR permission and sign a wayleave, that could be why one of the OR people spent time speaking to your neighbour, perhaps they refused permission initially, but could be persuaded by yourself

I have always thought that the most obvious way to reach our house is by the other pole which is directly in front and the cable would have to go over the hedge line between 2 neighbours. I have mentioned this to every BT engineer, but they always look at me as if I have 2 heads. They insist they must dig up the drive for the cable. I would have thought my way would be easier, quicker and cheaper for everyone.

It was said on the phone once that BT had e-mailed a neighbour who had refused permission, but I cannot get that confirmed by anyone, either which neighbour it was, why they refused or if it even happened. If BT could not get the neighbour's consent I do not know why they think i could.