Title plan

noddynoo

Is the title plan that comes with the lease etc for a flat 'set in stone ' as it were. I've been thinking about buying at auction and was reading the property pack and the flat is the upper part of a house and the lower is a smaller flat. The garden is referred to as shared in the details and isn;t demised to either but it is in 2 very obvious parts outside the back door of each flat. One says lower ground patio and the other says upper flat garden. SO both have a distinct area but as they aren't officially belonging to the flats (which both have long leases but not the FH) I wondered if the downstairs have any claim on the upper level as they have been using it while the flat has been empty for the last 4 yrs? It is clear on the title plan very much whose is who Should I get indemnity insurance for that or is the plan enough to show it is ours (to use not own!)

eddddy

If the lease says the entire garden is shared, both leaseholders will be bound by that.

You might be able to come to an informal agreement with the other leaseholder about each of you having exclusive use of part of the garden.

But if the other leaseholder sells up, there's no guarantee that the new leaseholder would continue the agreement.

Tom99

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The only way to properly deal with this is a deed of variation for both leases.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]That will involve the 2 leaseholders and also the freeholder and on top any mortgage co involved in all 3 titles.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]You will have to pay the legal fees of all 3 plus mortgage co's on top of which the other flat may well want a premium for the loss of their garden and the freeholder a fee for agreeing the changes.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]So it could all be very expensive.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I would suggest all you do for now is get a sworn declaration from the current vendor as to how long the area being used by the flat you are buying has been used exclusively by them and how long any fences have been there.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Also check out the original planning consent if this was previously a house divided into flats. A communal garden may have been a condition of that consent.[/FONT]

noddynoo

thank you both for your advice. The gardens are divided as in theirs is down a flight of stairs and is marked on the plan as downstairs garden and the upper section is outside that flats back door so they would have to come up to use it which I think they have been as it had a few plants etc and wasn't a real mess so has been looked after. I don't want to 'own' it as such just don't really want someone outside my door when I'm eating breakfast lol and wondered if the title plan had any meaning as they are both allocated but not outlined in red

Tom99

noddynoo wrote: »

thank you both for your advice. The gardens are divided as in theirs is down a flight of stairs and is marked on the plan as downstairs garden and the upper section is outside that flats back door so they would have to come up to use it which I think they have been as it had a few plants etc and wasn't a real mess so has been looked after. I don't want to 'own' it as such just don't really want someone outside my door when I'm eating breakfast lol and wondered if the title plan had any meaning as they are both allocated but not outlined in red

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]What does the wording in the lease say about the use of the garden?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]If it says your space is for your exclusive use then you have got what you want even if 'your' garden is not within the demised area of the lease.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]If the lease say the whole garden is for the communal use of both flats then, in theory at least, the other flat owner can put a deckchair on 'your' garden.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]In practice if each flat has its own garden space then both owners are likely to respect that arrangement no matter what the lease says.[/FONT]

noddynoo

The lease says nothing about the garden. It is not outlined in red and on the property details it says shared. On the title plan from when the house was converted in the 70s it has the flat itself outlined in red and to the side plan of the split level garden with upper maisonette on 'our' bit and lower flat in theirs. But as upper has been empty for years they've used it and I'm worried they won't want us to

moneyistooshorttomention

They may possibly have been dealing with the worst of keeping your garden-to-be in order - rather than using it per se?

I say this because there is a garden bordering mine that is steadily falling more and more into disrepair - as the maintenance work on it is basically no longer happening. Chances are also that when that property is eventually put on the market for sale that it will linger and linger and linger on the market.

Hence there are now some signs that "someone" is paying some attention to it - but that "someone" is me dealing with the worst of the weeds - so that they don't impact back on my property. But it doesnt mean I think I own the garden/am trying to. I'm just "dealing with the worst" only - only in order to protect my own property just until such time as there is a new owner of that house that will care for their garden themselves again.

So it may be an idea to just drop in on those flat-owners and say in friendly fashion that you're thinking of buying the other flat and make comments to effect of "So nice of someone (presumably your kind selves?) to keep an eye on the garden until such time as the upper flat has an owner again" and smile nicely at them. Then wait to see whether the response is "Oh...yes...we are just keeping an eye out to keep it tidy" or "It's OUR garden (glare/glare)" and then you'll see how the land lies.

noddynoo

Thanks that is an idea! I think they've been using it as it is nice and their garden below is totally bare. The garden below they seem to use as storage and the upstairs one for leisure. When the lease was done for teh conversion the title plan clearly states whose is who in terms of area and which flat has which but you don;t own it as they don;t want anything built on it or in the case of the one below the patio extended into The front garden is also communal and is nicely kept which I think they also do. The agent who showed us round also thinks it may be let as as they have a very short lease and it has never been extended whereas one we are interested in has new long lease (150) I will know more today

noddynoo

I have the lease plan here but can't see anywhere to post it so that you more informed people could see it!!

davidmcn

noddynoo wrote: »

I have the lease plan here but can't see anywhere to post it so that you more informed people could see it!!

Upload it to an image-hosting site and post the link here.

noddynoo

https://ibb.co/mB2R1T