Help BW Legal/ Excel Court Claims

bargepole

mrniceguy18 wrote: »

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I haven't got the N460 form would this come in the post or is this something i should have requested at the hearing ?

Upon weighing up the pros and cons i feel i should appeal as BW Legal are still pursuing me so i want to aim towards killing all of this dead in the water as i have already had to pay these scammers for the Judgement the other day and really don't want to give them another penny.

There won't be a form N460, if the Judge was going to grant leave to appeal, she should have signed that form at the first hearing.


You paid the Judgment already? In that case, it's game over, there is no procedure by which a Judge can order a Claimant to return funds from a paid Judgment to a Defendant. Time to move on to the next one.

[Deleted User]

If the court gave no permission to appeal in the hearing, you're gonna have to apply for permission to appeal. That's form N164 I believe. Don't delay getting this done. Do put work in to present a clear legal argument. Do your research.

If you don't clear that hurdle, then you're done for. If you've paid it, then I'd certainly just draw a line under this.

As ever, my musings only.... This is all for you to decide what to do.

mrniceguy18

bargepole wrote: »

You paid the Judgment already? In that case, it's game over, there is no procedure by which a Judge can order a Claimant to return funds from a paid Judgment to a Defendant. Time to move on to the next one.

Johnersh wrote: »

If you don't clear that hurdle, then you're done for. If you've paid it, then I'd certainly just draw a line under this.

As ever, my musings only.... This is all for you to decide what to do.

I guess I’m going to have to just take this one on the chin and learn from my mistakes.

I didn’t realise paying the judgement would mean that I could not claim it back.

Moving forward I am going to rework my witness statement and make it as strong as possible.

For the statement of truth proving I was elsewhere can this be typed up as signed by the person making the statement ?

I’m also going to write myself a transcript to follow in the next hearing so i don’t come unstuck and have a definitive answer for any questions that may be thrown my way.

What is the worst BW Legal can do using the previous case to their advantage ? I want to be able to combat anything they throw my way in the next hearing.

Should I also mention in the next hearing if they do rely on the previous hearing that the judge erred in law ?

Thankyou everyone who’s commented so far it has helped me a lot !

Coupon-mad

What is the worst BW Legal can do using the previous case to their advantage ? I want to be able to combat anything they throw my way in the next hearing.

They don't do joined-up writing. Not joking, they will not know. So shhh.

Should I also mention in the next hearing if they do rely on the previous hearing that the judge erred in law ?

Shhh!

Cali2018

Could I ask which court you attended - I have the same type of case with Excel parking still in early stages but same scenario Notice to keeper wasn’t POFA compliant and they are continuing to pursue me in reasonable presumption I was the driver.

Thanks

jkdd77

bargepole wrote: »

You paid the Judgment already? In that case, it's game over, there is no procedure by which a Judge can order a Claimant to return funds from a paid Judgment to a Defendant. Time to move on to the next one.

This is incorrect, as southpaw82 makes clear on the Pepipoo forum with extensive and detailed reference to case law: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=120491&st=0!!!entry1383948

Nykredit_v_Erdman_(1997) wrote:

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/uk/cases/UKHL/1997/53.html] The effect of the decision of this House given last June was that some of the money previously paid by the defendants to the plaintiff as damages and costs, pursuant to orders of the Judge and of the Court of Appeal, fell to be repaid to the defendants. This has given rise to the question whether, when ordering repayment, the House has jurisdiction to award interest on the money ordered to be repaid.

I am in no doubt that the answer to this question is yes. The court has no general, inherent power to order the payment of interest. But the situation now under consideration is not directed at requiring a defendant against whom the plaintiff has a cause of action to pay interest on money to which the plaintiff's cause of action entitles him. Nor is it directed at requiring him to pay interest on unpaid costs. Rather, when ordering repayment the House is unravelling the practical consequences of orders made by the courts below and duly carried out by the unsuccessful party. The result of the appeal to this House was that, to the extent indicated, orders made in the courts below should not have been made. This result could, in some cases, be an idle exercise unless the House were able to make consequential orders which achieve, as nearly as is reasonably practicable, the restitution which this result requires. This requires that the House should have power to order repayment of money paid over pursuant to an order which is subsequently set aside. It also requires that in suitable cases the House should have power to award interest on amounts ordered to be repaid. Otherwise the unravelling would be partial only.

This power seems to me to fall squarely within that range of powers which are necessarily implicit if a court of law possessed of appellate functions is to carry out its prescribed functions properly. It is, as such, a power derived from what is usually referred to as the inherent jurisdiction of the court. It is a power equally possessed by the Court of Appeal consequential upon orders made by it. The only surprising aspect of this power is that its existence has not previously arisen for decision.

To the OP- it is your choice whether or not to appeal, and you will need to act quickly if you do appeal- but I urge you not to make the decision based on a misapprehension that paying the judgment prevents you from getting your money back (plus interest, as the HoL judgment above makes clear) if and, one hopes, when, you succeed at appeal.

Furthermore, the question of whether the defendant entered into a contract with the claimant at all (i.e. whether he was driving) is certainly not a 'technical defence' at all but a core and fundamental question.

I stand by my advice to the OP to appeal, and would appeal myself were I in the OP's position, although I again acknowledge that there is no 100% guarantee either that leave to appeal will be granted or that, if granted, the substantive appeal will be successful.

mrniceguy18

Coupon-mad wrote: »

They don't do joined-up writing. Not joking, they will not know. So shhh.

Shhh!

Okay thats good to know my lips are sealed :silenced:

jkdd77 wrote: »

This is incorrect, as southpaw82 makes clear on the Pepipoo forum with extensive and detailed reference to case law.

To the OP- it is your choice whether or not to appeal, and you will need to act quickly if you do appeal- but I urge you not to make the decision based on a misapprehension that paying the judgment prevents you from getting your money back (plus interest, as the HoL judgment above makes clear) if and, one hopes, when, you succeed at appeal.

Furthermore, the question of whether the defendant entered into a contract with the claimant at all (i.e. whether he was driving) is certainly not a 'technical defence' at all but a core and fundamental question.

I stand by my advice to the OP to appeal, and would appeal myself were I in the OP's position, although I again acknowledge that there is no 100% guarantee either that leave to appeal will be granted or that, if granted, the substantive appeal will be successful.

Thankyou for your input, after reading that it has put some faith back into appealing , my only problem is that I never got a N460 from the judge does this mean that it is impossible to appeal without this ? (If anyone could give me some insight that would be much appreciated) as i understand i need to act fast as 5 days have already past.

If so i am going to draw a line under this one and concentrate on my WS for the next hearing.

nosferatu1001

No, as youve been told, up above, you ned to fill out the N146.

mrniceguy18

nosferatu1001 wrote: »

No, as youve been told, up above, you ned to fill out the N146.

Thankyou , I was confused as after doing some reading of Daz Claytons case he got an N460 which he sent off with the N146.

If this is not needed then i am going to go ahead and fill in the N146 and get it sent off ASAP.

Coupon-mad

Start by stating about the hearing and that the Judge did say at the start that you would be allowed to appeal if you felt she erred in her decision.

Show us your draft BEFORE you actually fill in the final copy!

Needs to show how she strayed into error...not ''I disagree''. Mention the evidence and your own oral testimony lent weight to you NOT being the driver, not the other way, and the irrelevant criminal case of CPS v AJH Films and/or Elliot v Loake and any 'agency' argument has no basis against a consumer keeper. Nor can any lawful assumption be made (did you put into evidence Henry Greenslade's words about 'Understanding Keeper Liability'? Hope you did, reiterate them!).

Conclude that she was not entitled to reach the conclusion she did.

Remember Mr Smith did it v Excel, and you appear to have the same dodgy decision.

I too felt uneasy that people ''can't appeal a court decision if they've paid''. I am glad to see that case law and that Southpaw felt that this is possible.