Help BW Legal/ Excel Court Claims

mrniceguy18

Hi,

I really need some help , i've only just came across this forum and wish i had done sooner.

I've had 2 court claims against me from BW Legal/Excel for 2 parking charges chasing me as the registered keeper when i was not the driver on the dates in question.

I have been getting help from my moms friend who is a lawyer and she helped me build my defence for the first case which went ahead last week.

I lost the first case as the judge seemed to think that POFA 2012 didn't apply and that the PPC could act on reasonable presumption under the balance of probability even though I stressed I wasn't the driver and that the only way they could chase me as the RK is if they had followed the act. I also stated henry greenslade's words on keeper liability aswell as the poor signage on the site.

Will this go against me for the 2nd case ?

it is due to be heard in a couple of months and i am going to fight it as i really feel i was dealt a bad DJ who disregarded the law in favour of the PPC.

If anyone could give me a word of advice this would be really helpful I have already filed my defence for the 2nd case and the witness statement is due in a couple of weeks.

Thankyou

Quentin

Your previous loss in court is irrelevant and won't affect the outcome of this hearing

The Newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum has comprehensive advice on how to deal with court claims.

See #2

But now your defence is submitted then it's realistically too late to amend it

There is advice there on preparing your ws

mrniceguy18

Quentin wrote: »

Your previous loss in court is irrelevant and won't affect the outcome of this hearing

The Newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum has comprehensive advice on how to deal with court claims.

See #2

But now your defence is submitted then it's realistically too late to amend it

There is advice there on preparing your ws

Thankyou for your speedy response okay thats good to hear its given me some faith as the judge i had a couple of days ago didn't even seem to have read the POFA schedule 4 which i included in my WS.

would it be better to just include the relevant sections such as POFA para 8/9 instead of the whole schedule ?

also can BW legal reference the previous case to help their case in the 2nd hearing ?

I have started my witness statement and will post for critique.

Coupon-mad

the judge i had a couple of days ago didn't even seem to have read the POFA schedule 4 which i included in my WS.

I lost the first case as the judge seemed to think that POFA 2012 didn't apply and that the PPC could act on reasonable presumption under the balance of probability even though I stressed I wasn't the driver and that the only way they could chase me as the RK is if they had followed the act. I also stated henry greenslade's words on keeper liability aswell as the poor signage on the site.

Are you contemplating appealing that wrong decision, error about keeper liability? Mr Smith did and you have a cast iron(ish) ground for appealing the wrong decision - error in law:

http://www.parking-prankster.com/more-case-law.html

Bottom 2 are useful, but Excel v Smith is more persuasive as it's an APPEAL example, the victim lost first (he posted on pepipoo) and of course appealed the DJ's wrong decision and won.

I would NOT take that lying down, the decision was IN ERROR IN LAW.

Especially important as you have this other case looming. Appeal. Quickly. Get it put right and claim your costs back. BW Legal and Excel are playing fast & loose with Judges' ignorance.

I have been getting help from my moms friend who is a lawyer and she helped me build my defence for the first case which went ahead last week.

Hope that solicitor told you the above, and didn't think your chances were hopeless?

Read Excel v Smith now.

EXCEL KNOW THEY CAN'T ASSUME WHO WAS DRIVING OR RELY ON CPS V AJH FILMS!

mrniceguy18

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Are you contemplating appealing that wrong decision, error about keeper liability? Mr Smith did and you have a cast iron(ish) ground for appealing the wrong decision - error in law:


Bottom 2 are useful, but Excel v Smith is more persuasive as it's an APPEAL example, the victim lost first (he posted on pepipoo) and of course appealed the DJ's wrong decision and won.

I would NOT take that lying down, the decision was IN ERROR IN LAW.

Especially important as you have this other case looming. Appeal. Quickly. Get it put right and claim your costs back. BW Legal and Excel are playing fast & loose with Judges' ignorance.

Hope that solicitor told you the above, and didn't think your chances were hopeless?

Read Excel v Smith now.

EXCEL KNOW THEY CAN'T ASSUME WHO WAS DRIVING OR RELY ON CPS V AJH FILMS!

Thankyou for your help !

How would I go about appealing and is there costs involved ?

I am going to read excel vs smith now appealing is something i am going to highly consider as I feel the DJ made a massive error in her judgement.

also will this case have any impact on my 2nd case due with BW Legal as my next case is in a months time ?

Coupon-mad

How would I go about appealing and is there costs involved ?

Google it. All these things are dead easy to find, and why hasn't this helpful solicitor told you this already and got you the appeal form? You have to act quickly, but the solicitor can tell you that!

£100 or so in a court fee - and in your case if you were NOT driving and this was Excel, they CANNOT IN LAW have held you liable and the Judge was wrong.

Same as Excel v Smith. Here in post #174 is the Smith transcript, given to a forum poster:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=112635&st=160

and here is the poster in the 'Mr Smith appeal case' himself, posting as Daz Clayton:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=112774

He talks about the appeal form he completed and how he achieved it. Do what he did! Especially due to being pursued for another one. This was wrong. You could try sending Daz Clayton a pm and maybe he might get an email alert, and reply to you (he is not a regular on pepipoo so may never see your message but you can ask).

also will this case have any impact on my 2nd case due with BW Legal as my next case is in a months time ?

When you win your appeal, yes. YOU can use it to great effect, to quash the next one or ask for it to 'be stayed' pending the outcome of the Appeal. You would need to send the court a draft order re the second one if it's at court stage, to get it stayed (solicitor friend can do that for you).

Seems like the solicitor dropped the ball here or failed to coach you well enough. Did he/she not even give you the case of Launchbury, to counter-argue at the hearing, the baseless ''we assume you were driving/we think the driver was your agent, relying on the completely irrelevant company case of CPS v AJH Films''?

Did the solicitor even tell you clearly how to rebut the also irrelevant Elliott v Loake?

On this forum we do this all the time:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74296907#Comment_74296907

I keep banging on about this but your Judge erred in law. You need to act QUICKLY, your appeal time is very limited.

A keeper CANNOT BE HELD LIABLE outwith the POFA, if they were not the driver. Don't let that wrongly 'lost' claim go, apply for leave to appeal and explain how the Judge erred. A win at appeal clearly means the second one will have to be discontinued after any stay.

Worth £100 to see them both off, and reclaim all your costs if the Appeal Judge agrees.




P.S. IMHO the solicitor friend owes you one, for letting you lose one that was not lose-able!

mrniceguy18

Coupon-mad wrote: »

why hasn't this helpful solicitor told you this already and got you the appeal form? You have to act quickly, but the solicitor can tell you that!

£100 or so in a court fee - and in your case if you were NOT driving and this was Excel, they CANNOT IN LAW have held you liable and the Judge was wrong.

Thankyou for all your help I will google how to appeal and fill in the relevant forms and go through the links you have included. she didn't have much time to assist me as she has alot going on I was pointed in the right direction with my defence and witness statement I also had the relevant defence's against CPS V AJH but I felt the judge was in favour of the parking company no matter what i said as she was being ignorant towards POFA. The judge did say she would give me a chance to appeal at the start but never got round to it after she gave her final judgement.

I have paid BW Legal after the judgement will this affect my appeal or can i claim this back ?

Coupon-mad wrote: »

ask for it to 'be stayed' pending the outcome of the Appeal. You would need to send the court a draft order re the second one if it's at court stage, to get it stayed (solicitor friend can do that for you)

I'm going to have to take this upon myself and find the relevant information in going through this process as the solicitor friend has proven that she cannot be relied on.

How do i go about asking for a hearing to be stayed ?

Coupon-mad wrote: »

P.S. IMHO the solicitor friend owes you one, for letting you lose one that was not lose-able!

I agree, i'm glad i came across you guys on this forum it has given me some hope in fighting this !

a1terrier

Hi
Have you got proof you were not driving?

Quentin

a1terrier wrote: »

Hi
Have you got proof you were not driving?

Why do you suggest a keeper needs proof??

a1terrier

Because if a Ppc is pursuing a keeper, presuming the RK was driving, not relying on POFA, and keeper has proof they were not driving there is no case to answer as I understand it.

[Deleted User]

I lost the first case as the judge seemed to think that POFA 2012 didn't apply and that the PPC could act on reasonable presumption under the balance of probability even though I stressed I wasn't the driver and that the only way they could chase me as the RK is if they had followed the act.

This does indeed appear wrong, if it happened exactly as described. Do bear in mind that it is always open to the judge to make findings of fact (i.e. to dispute what you say and to determine that you were driving). Thus it is theoretically possible to win the grounds for appeal but still lose the case. I say that not to p155 on anyone's chips, just to make clear that there is always a risk in litigation.

Other than to make that caveat, do press on - and bear in mind the 21 day deadline for appeal from the date that the judgment was made against you.