Battle of the DCA'S

shane5408

rayday2 wrote: »

I had a very similar thing original creditor was a catalogue and for a year been paying to Intrum Justitia then all of a sudden I had a letter from another company SRJ or something. I wrote a letter of complaint to the original catalogue people for setting two companies on the case and asked both DCA for a signed credit agreement. SRJ wrote back straight away and said the case was closed and sent my cheque back. Intrum cashed the cheque but have not sent the signed credit agreement yet and not had a response from catalogue company.

I have not sent payment to anyone since not sure if this is right or not, but I guess I will see! I figure if Intrum moan that I have missed a payment I will tell them they cashed the cheque but did not send a copy of agreement.

The template letter to send is on the national debthelpline and you send a £1 cheque for costs.

Intrum Justitia can moan all they like, rest assured the burden of proof is on them to provide evidence the debt is legally enforcable. Catalogue companies, especially Littlewoods are notorious for not keeping accurate records of documents, unless they can provide a regulated agreement signed by the debtor that contains ALL prescribed terms then quite frankly the debt is legally unenforcable and they have no recourse through the courts.

kind regards,
Shane

rayday2

Thanks Shane for that sorry one more question apologies to first poster - how does this look on your credit history if it was unenforceable?

shane5408

rayday2 wrote: »

Thanks Shane for that sorry one more question apologies to first poster - how does this look on your credit history if it was unenforceable?

Hi Ray,

no problems, I'm sure you're question is of interest to the first poster! There isn't an easy or straightforward answer I'm afraid, it really does depend on each persons' individual circumstances. In most cases if no agreement exists at all, or the creditor simply cannot provide it then a letter to the company secretary copied to the Chairman explaining that they have seriously breached the data protection act, they never had your consent to process your data etc as well as a complaint to the Information Comissioners Office should get them to cease and desist processing and remove all previous recorded data.

If an agreement exists but it is unenforcable by virtue of 127(3), ie missing any prescribed terms then it's a little more difficult because though the debt is unenforcable, it still exits in the equitable sense and stipulates a valid contract between the two parties allowing the creditor to carry on passing info to third party CRA's in relation to the managing of the debt by virtue of Section 2(A) of Schedule 2 of the Data protection act. However, having said that if they are challenged to remove it and given an lba my inclination is that they will fold before any court date as they really have nothing to gain, the debt is unenforcable so there is no financial gain, just their stubborness not to remove any defaults etc.

Lastly, there is also an argument to be used under s59(1) of the ACT which states any agreement that purports to bind a debtor into entering an agreement in the future is void. This basically means precontracual application forms which effectively bind the debtor into entering future credit and do not constitute a vaid agreement at the time of execution are void. Now void is different to unenforcable, it means effectively that in the eyes of the law it never happened and the debtor and creditor are put back in the situaion they were in before the agreement was signed. This is means no consent was ever given to the creditor and they most certainly cannot process your data, in this situation the ICO would force them to remove any credit data on your report and stop processing it forthwith

kind regards,
shane

rayday2

Thanks for that have to admit some of it went over my head but will definately look into it when I know where I stand with the companies concerned. I was happy paying the debt the only reason was when they got two collection agencies onto me the only way to stop it seemed to be to request the credit agreement.

Post has come today and still not heard anything, I worry about leaving it but until they write and ask where is your payment, or provide the credit agreement I don't really see what I can do.

loneranger

Just to update on the original post - I had a letter from the second DCA Fredrickson International, they have just said I must pay them for the full amount PDQ, no copy of the credit agreement as requested. I had also written and sent a cheque to Intrum Justitia and they haven't responded or cashed the cheque.Should I ignore FI and just leave it all up to Intrum Justitia - who I have been paying regularly for a year or more? I did consider writing one letter and send copies to FI , Intrum Justitia and Marshall Ward (the original creditor) if I do that does anyone know the address of Marshall Ward and which department to send it to? Sorry to ask so many questions but this is really bugging me because I has everything in order and organised until Fredrickson International poked their nose in and messed it all up.

GeorgeUK

If Marshall Ward aren't chasing you for anything, i suggest you leave them out of the loop.

Just to get this straigt:
You sent a letter with £1 payment requesting CCA to both Fredrickson International & Intrum Justitia?
Is it just IJ that hasn't cashed the cheque? Were the letters sent by Recorded Delivery? (If so, check to see if they have been received)

If the above is correct, there is a 2nd letter (by weller) that you can send stating that the debt is unenforcable unless they go to court and produce the CCA.
I think it's the first link in this thread. http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=578486

loneranger

No George, that's not it. The original creditor was Marshall ward who passed this debt to Intrum Justitia over a year ago .I had an agreement with Intrum Justitia to pat £1 per month and have been paying them regularly for over a year. Now , out of the blue , I have been sent letters by Fredrickson International saying that Pheonix recoveries have asked them to collect the debt and I should pay them the full amount.I contacted Intrum Justitia and they say that I should pay them (Intrum Justitia) as I have always done. FI have been very aggressive about this and I feel that I should contact Marshall ward to ask their advice but do not know the address to write to. I do not really have the time to mess about with this and feel that FI have sabotaged the smooth running of my DMP which has been going along quite nicely for over a year .Feel like ignoring IJ and FI and waiting for the call to 'see them in court'.:eek:

rayday2

Well Intrum got pretty nasty with me the over day seems they can't produce a signed credit agreement so I have not paid them so far. On the phone she said they did not need one and they could enforce things without one so I sent a second letter to say they were in breach of not responding or something. Got the link if you need it!

loneranger

Thanks Rayday2, would like the link - but I wonder if it's right that they don't need to send a credit agreement. Not sure if I should waste my time worrying about this - I am so annoyed that they are just sabotaging my DMP and feel like just ignoring them (this is all for the grand sum of £208 and it's doing my head in.

GeorgeUK

Send the CCA request to both FI & IJ
There are templates that say what needs to be done in my other link.
If neither can produce a CCA within 14 days then the debt cannot be enforced without a court order. If after 30 days they have still not provided a copy and are chasing you for the debt, they are committing a criminal offence.

I would rather get it in black and white who i am supposed to pay (if anyone) and have the law on my side rather than just wait and hope.

Also, that link i gave earlier tells how weller claimed back money already paid after they couldn't produce a copy of the CCA so may well be worth your while pursuing this.

good luck
George

Edit: If this is for an overdraft, then they probably won't have ever gotten a CCA (or need one) but at least you should find out who you should be making the payments to.