Developer sold off part of the managed estate as defined in TP1..can they do this?!

ceivegz

Hi, I'm a director of a Residents Management Company on a housing estate that's about 15 years old that took over management of the estate 2 years ago. We've recently found that the housing developer that built the estate recently sold a building (that originally only had temporary planning permission) and land that has mostly been managed by the estate manager at a cost to residents and which the TP1 defines as to be managed by the estate manager. Is this even legal? The developer, as we understand it, owns all of the land we manage on behalf of the estate, and this sale seems to set a scary precedent under which the developer could be permitted to build on land that was previously considered to be communal!

[Deleted User]

You will find the detail in the small print of your house contract and it will be there. It was there when we bought our last home and the developer could have sold and built and we would not have been allowed to object. As a group, we bought the freehold between us and self managed, we became safe. We did all this is year 3, 42 properties and many acres, much was woodland and the likes of tennis courts but some was roadside and very suitable for development. I think it is too late for you. I presume you have checked your legal plans

Management is just looking after the area and self-management is at lowest cost. I am now a group of 6, we own the freehold of a small area between us and self manage

moneyistooshorttomention

If he's able to get away with this - that would mean you've all been devoting your labour and your money to managing land he still regarded as his.

A thought to ponder imo...

PasturesNew

It wasn't communal land though was it; it was owned by somebody.

You need to find out how come you managed to end up gardening/tidying this piece of land - whether it was part of the agreement that was to be managed, or whether you just "did it because we thought it was to be done". In short ... if you came and did my gardening for free, I'd let you ... but ultimately it's my land and I can sell it.

It might be that the maintenance of the land is within the document so it didn't get overgrown, but that would be different to who owns the land. If the developer owns the land and you've been maintaining it for free, then just start by wondering how that occurred... but, ultimately, it's his land.

Sometimes people have no idea what they own ... a neighbour told me they'd been "keeping XYZ tidy" - and I pointed out that it was actually her land, it was on her deeds.... and, owning it from new for 8 years, she had NO idea. She'd assumed it was some communal planting area and she was being good/kind to keep the bushes trimmed! She's obviously now checked her deeds and realised as she's used the words "private land" to me in a subsequent conversation about the area.

[Deleted User]

no, communal areas still need to be maintained eg grass cutting etc and is much cheaper do do via the self-managed route rather than appointed managing agents. Nothing will have been done to improve the communal area, just maintenance for the communal benefit

re communal: a communal benefit ie right to use ie walk, park etc. We had a lot of communal area initially owned by the freeholder/developer. It was never improved by us ie to add value but was always maintained by the community

ceivegz

kittie wrote: »

You will find the detail in the small print of your house contract and it will be there.

The deeds just say that transferees (i.e. people who bought homes) have a right to access this land that is "conveyed to manager".

So, although the land is owned by the developer, the deeds clearly state that other parties in the deeds have a right to continued access and enjoyment of this land and that this is protected by a covenant.

We have since learnt that the developer thought it had "offered" the land to the estate manager, but it turned out that it was offered to the estate manager of an adjacent estate that has the same name! It seems that this estate manager turned down the offer without even explaining that it wasn't even the manager for the estate!

ceivegz

PasturesNew wrote: »

It wasn't communal land though was it; it was owned by somebody.

You need to find out how come you managed to end up gardening/tidying this piece of land - whether it was part of the agreement that was to be managed, or whether you just "did it because we thought it was to be done".

Although the land is/was owned by the developer the deeds and estate plan logged with Land Registry state that the land is "conveyed to manager" and forms part of the estate. In fact, all the communal land that's defined as being "conveyed to manager" that forms part of the estate is protected by a covenant in the deeds that gives homeowners right of access to the land. The original planning applications for the estate would also have defined the land as public open space. In once example, the developer has sold part of a natural corridor that should have been maintained as open space and transferred to either the council or the estate manager to an adjacent home so as to allow them to extend their garden. This is now the subject of Planning enforcement action. In short. The developer has resisted transferring land that it owns so that it can where possible over the years sell or develop sections of it for profit even if this puts them in breach of covenants and planning consent.

agrinnall

I'm not sure that there's much point in trying to help the OP given the gap of over 7 months between their first post and their return to the thread.

G_M

So if the Land Registry records show that "the land is "conveyed to manager" and forms part of the estate" (not that I understand that - either he is still the registered owner or the Title has passed to someone else who is now the registered owner), then how di he manage to sell?


What does your legal adviser have to say?