Paypal is refusing me my refund

sweetha

Hi,

I hope I am writing in the right thread and hopefully, someone can help me with an issue I have with PayPal and wowcamera.

In January I bought two Samsung phones (£1068) with Wowcamera (online retailer) and they were only offering the option to pay with PayPal, since I am a regular user I did not think twice and paid the whole amount using my PayPal Credit ( which has got a 4-month interest free offer). However, the problem began when the parcel did not show up, but DHL marked it as delivered with a signature and name I did not recognise. I contacted DHL immediately and they informed me that they will look into it and I also contacted the seller, with no response from both of them for days. After I pressured and annoyed them, DHL came to conclusion, that since the driver was in my area that the parcel was delivered.
I again complaint, but this time through PayPal, to my shock they came back to me after weeks of waiting that the fake signature and name was enough proof for them and rejected to refund me. I also was in communication with the seller and they were investigating and finally decided to refund me, but PayPal closed the case and they did not see any further pressure to refund me.
I am not sure what else to do and I would need help on what other steps I can take to get my refund?

Thanks in advance

sweetha

marliepanda

They may have some evidence that it was indeed delivered correctly. Many vans have cameras and trackers.

It!!!8217;s also very easy for someone to sign an illegible signature.

sweetha

Hi,
I understand that they have their measurements, but they have to provide the proof to me, too. Also, I do not have any direct neighbours and I waited on that day for the parcel to arrive. No knock on the door or a phone call!

unholyangel

I don't think any of us are familiar with either the laws of hong kong or their courts so we may not have any suggestions that would help.

Governing law and jurisdiction

These terms and conditions and all transactions relating to this website are governed by Hong Kong law and are subject to the non–exclusive jurisdiction of the Hong Kong courts. We do not accept amendments to these terms and conditions.

When you paid via paypal....this was using paypal credit you said? Try a section 75 claim with paypal.

pinkshoes

Ouch.

You cannot take DHL to court as their contract is with the seller.

You cannot take the seller to court as you have bought from someone outside the UK.

Unless your PayPal payment was backed by a credit card (as mentioned above) then your only other (but dishonest) option is to open a dispute for not as described and returns the <nothing> that you have received.

Have you contacted the police and reported it stolen? If not, do this. I personally wold then tackle DHL againm state that yu have reported it as stolen by their driver, and the police will be in contact.

sweetha

Thanks unholyangel and pinkshoes.

@unholyangel: Could you please give me the website to the citation, so I can have a look.

Also, does anyone know or have experience with applying section 75 on Paypal credit?
I am considering on going to the police and report the item stolen! I made a complaint to the financial ombudsman as a first step, but do you feel I should go ahead and make a complaint, too?

KeithP

Unholyangel's quote is from the very same website where you placed your order;

WOWCamera - Terms of Use

No doubt you ticked a box saying you had read and agreed to those terms at the time that you placed your order.


Why not read MSE's Section 75 Refunds article?

unholyangel

sweetha wrote: »

Thanks unholyangel and pinkshoes.

@unholyangel: Could you please give me the website to the citation, so I can have a look.

Also, does anyone know or have experience with applying section 75 on Paypal credit?
I am considering on going to the police and report the item stolen! I made a complaint to the financial ombudsman as a first step, but do you feel I should go ahead and make a complaint, too?

A section 75 claim you would make against the creditor (in this case, paypal - or paypal credit if its a different company). Im not entirely sure if it will be successful for a few reasons. Namely that:

1) It requires a debtor > creditor > supplier link and sometimes third parties like paypal can break this chain when paying by card if you pay via your paypal account as the chain becomes debtor > creditor > paypal > supplier. Im not sure what the chain is when paypal credit is involved.
2) Section 75 basically only gives you a claim against the creditor if you have a claim against the retailer. Under UK law theres no doubt you would have a claim for non-delivery under the consumer rights act (and potentially the consumer contract regulations also). But given its hong kong law that applies and I'm not familiar with their laws, I couldn't say for definite.

Once paypal have issued their final response (or if 8 weeks pass without them giving you one) you can then complain to the financial ombudsman.

As a last resort, you should also be able to file against them in the english courts (assuming youre in england) given their terms say non-exclusive jurisdiction of the hong kong courts. You wont be able to use MCOL online though unless the company have a address in england or wales that they accept service to.

sweetha

@KeithP the website was updated, they are not the same T&C's, as when I bought the items and my section 75 question was in regards to experience with Paypal Credit.

I once again got in touch with the seller and also with the financial ombudsman against Paypal.

@unholyangel I feel Paypal as the credit provider needs to accept my section 75 claim, as I did not use them as a third party, but as a financier.

KeithP

sweetha wrote: »

@KeithP the website was updated, they are not the same T&C's, as when I bought the items...

Then please show us the T&Cs you agreed to, or at least what that term said at the time of purchase.

Did they perhaps send you an email with their T&Cs on it?

sweetha

PayPal is the culprit here, as they are accepting a fake signature ( I know these machines are small and that DHL or other service tend not to take a name), but they need to use common sense as DHL did not provide any other details, apart from it was a man, who accepted the delivery. Apart from T&C, it is under consumer law that they need to refund me if something is off and they need to dispute it with DHL.
I also finally have got a European address, I can file a complaint with and I also reported the case to the police.