Sub-Meters

Nashaan

My partner and I moved into an apartment in The Landmark, Brierley Hill, West Midlands in November 2017. The apartment was very well located, rent was affordable and a bonus is we were told the electric was low tariff. When we moved in, our letting agent explained that our details would be passed to iammoving.com who would be in contact to arrange electricity and water bills (no gas in the property). After a few weeks we had not heard anything so I contacted them myself who said our energy supplier was Ginger Energy. I spoke with Ginger energy who explained they are the only energy supplier for the building as there is only one main meter and the flats have sub-meters. This structure was not changed when the building was converted from office space into flats. Since moving in, all of our electricity bills have been £200+ including approximately £30 standing charges. All of our invoices are emailed from Ginger energy but we are to make payments to Centrick, who is the building manager. There have been many complaints about the cost of our electricity as there are some who turn off all of the wall heaters and use very little electricity, yet receive a very high bill. This month, we have done the same, turning off the heaters and all electricity off at the wall, yet due to increases after 1st April, this month was the largest bill of £299.

Firstly, I would like to know if using a sub-meter (which we do not have access to) is efficient for a domestic property and I have my own concerns that we are paying our bills to Centrick instead of directly to Ginger energy. I have wondered whether Centrick are taking a commission before forwarding the full payment of the building to Ginger. I have also been told that our standard charges increase depending on the occupancy of the building e.g. if the occupancy reduces, our prices go up. I believe this isn’t just the case for standard charges but also for our actual electric use. It would be interesting to know how our bills are proportioned. On this note, if someone is in arrears, who covers this payment? We live in a 2 bed apartment and some who live in studios have a similar bill to us. Occupants who move into this building are not told about the electricity arrangements and it was not disclosed in our tenancy agreement either. Had I have known and possibly many other people, I would not have chosen to live here. People ought to know before signing the agreement. We are very happy here and the location makes it an ideal place to live, however the electricity bills are very high and it is difficult to see why. We wouldn’t want to move out of the property but we feel that may be the only option if no action is taken with the electricity.

I would be very grateful if you could express your opinion and suggest any action that could be taken. I look forward to your response.

WhoIsThat

Nashaan wrote: »

My partner and I moved into an apartment in The Landmark, Brierley Hill, West Midlands in November 2017. The apartment was very well located, rent was affordable and a bonus is we were told the electric was low tariff. When we moved in, our letting agent explained that our details would be passed to iammoving.com who would be in contact to arrange electricity and water bills (no gas in the property). After a few weeks we had not heard anything so I contacted them myself who said our energy supplier was Ginger Energy. I spoke with Ginger energy who explained they are the only energy supplier for the building as there is only one main meter and the flats have sub-meters. This structure was not changed when the building was converted from office space into flats. Since moving in, all of our electricity bills have been £200+ including approximately £30 standing charges. All of our invoices are emailed from Ginger energy but we are to make payments to Centrick, who is the building manager. There have been many complaints about the cost of our electricity as there are some who turn off all of the wall heaters and use very little electricity, yet receive a very high bill. This month, we have done the same, turning off the heaters and all electricity off at the wall, yet due to increases after 1st April, this month was the largest bill of £299.

Firstly, I would like to know if using a sub-meter (which we do not have access to) is efficient for a domestic property and I have my own concerns that we are paying our bills to Centrick instead of directly to Ginger energy. I have wondered whether Centrick are taking a commission before forwarding the full payment of the building to Ginger. I have also been told that our standard charges increase depending on the occupancy of the building e.g. if the occupancy reduces, our prices go up. I believe this isn!!!8217;t just the case for standard charges but also for our actual electric use. It would be interesting to know how our bills are proportioned. On this note, if someone is in arrears, who covers this payment? We live in a 2 bed apartment and some who live in studios have a similar bill to us. Occupants who move into this building are not told about the electricity arrangements and it was not disclosed in our tenancy agreement either. Had I have known and possibly many other people, I would not have chosen to live here. People ought to know before signing the agreement. We are very happy here and the location makes it an ideal place to live, however the electricity bills are very high and it is difficult to see why. We wouldn!!!8217;t want to move out of the property but we feel that may be the only option if no action is taken with the electricity.

I would be very grateful if you could express your opinion and suggest any action that could be taken. I look forward to your response.

There is no change to the 'efficiciency' whether you have a sub-meter or a main meter.

The only difference is that as a sub-metered customer, you cannot change your supplier who is actually your landlord.

Your landlord, as an unlicenced supplier, may only pass on the costs he incurs in supplying you with your energy.
- it will be the landlord's issue if someone else is not paying their billls.
Landlords can, like any energy supplier, install pre-payment meters on those who don't pay their bills to not only ensure they do pay for what they use, but also to recover arrears.
As for unlet apartments (assuming they also have a similar sub meter) , then the general rule is that landlords are responsible for their property during any vacant periods ... so the landlord will have to pay his own share of standing charges for any vacant appartment.

Of course, your landlord may be on the most expensive tariff ever known, despite somehow having promised you " the electric was low tariff"

What probably is the case is that the landlord will be on a business tariff (which is often individually negotiated), and these tend to be more expensive than most domestic tariffs (nothing you can do about that), although VAT should only be charged to you at the 5% domestic rate.

You would have been aware of the arrangement before you entered the tenancy agreement (if simply by seeing it was a sub-meter installed); if you now are unhappy with the arrangement, all you can do is give notice to quit and find somewhere else to live.

Cardew

Above response is both comprehensive and correct; the bottom line is that the landlord cannot re-sell electricity at a profit.

You haven't said how much per unit(kWh) you are being charged and the standing charge; for instance what was the breakdown of last month's £299 bill?

dogshome

This doesn't smell right

Never heard of Ginger Energy, so had a Google
It transpires that GE are not a licensed Energy Supplier, but an Energy Consultancy advising businesses on energy costs and suppliers.

They will handle sub-billing on behalf of a commercial landlord, so it seems reasonable that GE were involved with the choice of supplier and billing, when it was a commercial building.

However, Business Energy suppliers are barred by the terms of their licence, from supplying domestic customers - So the BIG question is, which supplier is actually delivering energy to the building, that GE then sub-bill for ?

Questions needing answers
1) Just who is the Prime Supplier, and are they a Business only provider
2) Just how do the prices per Kwh and Service charge stack up against Domestic tariffs

WhoIsThat

dogshome wrote: »

....
However, Business Energy suppliers are barred by the terms of their licence, from supplying domestic customers - So the BIG question is, which supplier is actually delivering energy to the building, that GE then sub-bill for ?

...

But the energy is NOT being supplied to a domestic customer

D_M_E

If the building was converted from offices into flats then surely it is now domestic, not business and therefore Ginger Energy should not be supplying.

Also, as has been said above, it is the landlord's responsibility to cover the costs of any unoccupied flat - it should not be loaded onto occupied premises.

A complaint to Ginger Energy would be in order, and if it were me I would also get the local Trading Standards involved as this sort of situation cannot be fair or reasonable.

EDIT - who knows what the landlord him/herself is using and adding to the bill?

paulmurphy27

Does anyone have a water sub meter on a private property (not where landlords are involved)? I'm just moving to a private property and have been told that a sub meter could reduce my water charges as I use it for a hot tub as well as watering plants.

House_Martin

Multiple occupancy flats can be used with business contracts. These large flats can just have one meterpoint for gas/electric with a big gas meter and a large boiler and a maximum demand business electric meter and so qualify for lower business rate contracts
Business energy rates, in general, can be lower than domestic rates. Depends on which contract has been taken out and some could be as long as 4 years with no way out.
The OP needs to be gathering the exact Eco 7 tariff charges and the daily standing charges to compare with current domestic tariffs.
The ones I have seen have easily beaten British Gas rates especially on standing charges. Could well be a good deal on the business contract for each flat

paulmurphy27

Ta. I'm after home owners who have water meters and have a sub meter, which is meant to reduce my water bills.