Mad idea? Buyer uses house before closing?

Pixie5740

dunroving wrote: »

I know, I know, and am fully aware that it makes some people furious when posters mix up the England/Scotland terminology, but I knew what I meant! ;-)

I'm selling in Scotland and buying in England, so tend to mix and match when I'm talking about one or t'other.

I'm not furious you are mixing up terms. I'm merely pointing out that the selling process is not the same so it's not just a case of using the wrong terminology. You might know what you meant but others might not. The date of entry formed part of your buyer's offer and that's the date you should be working towards.

dunroving

Pixie5740 wrote: »

I'm not furious you are mixing up terms. I'm merely pointing out that the selling process is not the same so it's not just a case of using the wrong terminology. You might know what you meant but others might not. The date of entry formed part of your buyer's offer and that's the date you should be working towards.

I am still waiting on the offer from the solicitor. The offer was accepted via the estate agent, with certain conditions, but date of entry was still to be agreed. The buyer stated in her offer via the estate agent that she was flexible.

As with the two solicitors associated with my house purchase, the two solicitors associated with the sale of my own house seem to be working on a Hurry Up And Wait timeline.

[AFAIK, the entry date is usually in the missives, not the offer]

Pixie5740

dunroving wrote: »

I am still waiting on the offer from the solicitor. The offer was accepted via the estate agent, with certain conditions, but date of entry was still to be agreed. The buyer stated in her offer via the estate agent that she was flexible.

As with the two solicitors associated with my house purchase, the two solicitors associated with the sale of my own house seem to be working on a Hurry Up And Wait timeline.

[AFAIK, the entry date is usually in the missives, not the offer]

This is what happens when you mix up English law with Scots law. You have estate agents accepting offers and don't know that the date of entry forms part of the offer.

KiKi

I moved into my current house a day before completion. I sent an email to the vendor via the EA (we didn't go through solicitors becuase, of course, they'd have said "don't do it!") to confirm that if anything happened regarding completion, I'd of course move back out and would be responsible for any costs.

I was moving on my own, and wanted to get a room in the new house ready so I could move the cats into one room which was 'normal' for them to lessen their stress. I also wanted to make sure the flat was spotless so that the new buyers didn't have to clean, and I just couldn't do it in half a day. I don't have a car so needed the removals guys to drive me to the new place, too!

Obviously, if my vendor had said no, I'd have had to sort something else and get some help, but he wasn't living in the property so was more than happy for me to do come in a day early to clean then move in.

Worked for me. Not sure I'd be brave enough to do it the other way around unless I had met the buyer a few times and was confident about them!

dunroving

Pixie5740 wrote: »

This is what happens when you mix up English law with Scots law. You have estate agents accepting offers and don't know that the date of entry forms part of the offer.

The estate agent is in Scotland ...

The Law Society of Scotland doesn't seem to be completely clear, either.

https://www.lawscot.org.uk/for-the-public/what-a-solicitor-can-do-for-you/buying-and-selling-a-property/

I have to say many descriptions of the system in Scotland are ambiguous. But my understanding is that the offer may contain a suggested entry date, and this is negotiated back and forth during exchange of missives.

dunroving

KiKi wrote: »

I moved into my current house a day before completion. I sent an email to the vendor via the EA (we didn't go through solicitors becuase, of course, they'd have said "don't do it!") to confirm that if anything happened regarding completion, I'd of course move back out and would be responsible for any costs.

I was moving on my own, and wanted to get a room in the new house ready so I could move the cats into one room which was 'normal' for them to lessen their stress. I also wanted to make sure the flat was spotless so that the new buyers didn't have to clean, and I just couldn't do it in half a day. I don't have a car so needed the removals guys to drive me to the new place, too!

Obviously, if my vendor had said no, I'd have had to sort something else and get some help, but he wasn't living in the property so was more than happy for me to do come in a day early to clean then move in.

Worked for me. Not sure I'd be brave enough to do it the other way around unless I had met the buyer a few times and was confident about them!

I think my buyer in the US was brave to let me stay on for 6 weeks after closing. I do trust the buyer of my current house, it's just getting a bit too messy to give her and her family use of the house for a weekend, a couple of weeks before my preferred closing date.

Pixie5740

dunroving wrote: »

The estate agent is in Scotland ...

The Law Society of Scotland doesn't seem to be completely clear, either.

https://www.lawscot.org.uk/for-the-public/what-a-solicitor-can-do-for-you/buying-and-selling-a-property/

I have to say many descriptions of the system in Scotland are ambiguous.

It seems pretty clear to me.

Perhaps the descriptions you've found online seem ambiguous because people mix up terms with those only applicable to selling property in England.

You don't even have a formal offer, with date of entry, so personally I wouldn't put myself out to accommodate the buyer at this stage.

dunroving

Pixie5740 wrote: »

It seems pretty clear to me.

Perhaps the descriptions you've found online seem ambiguous because people mix up terms with those only applicable to selling property in England.

You don't even have a formal offer, with date of entry, so personally I wouldn't put myself out to accommodate the buyer at this stage.

OK, here is my basic understanding of the Scottish system.

A formal offer is made and accepted, that may include certain conditions, including date of entry (though several Scottish sources on the matter aren't very explicit on this). This may be done via a solicitor (indeed, in Scotland, solicitors often act as estate agents, marketing the property as well as serving as legal representatives of the seller). In my case, the offer was formally submitted including questions regarding conditions (what was to be included, and what date of entry), via the Scotland-based estate agent. The buyer indicated in the date of entry section a range of dates ("June to August") and said she was flexible, in her offer

Solicitors put together missives (a legal document containing the conditions of sale/purchase). If the offer was negotiated by the solicitor, these would presumably be one and the same. If the offer was negotiated by an estate agent, the solicitor would simply construct the missives based on the conditions of the formal offer.

These are exchanged and bounced back and forth during which the conditions may be amended.

When everyone is in agreement on the conditions within the missives, the missives are concluded. In my Anglophile mind, this is roughly equivalent to the situation in England where contracts are exchanged, in terms of everyone being formally committed to the sale and purchase.

In my situation described earlier, the buyer's family (and she) would gain entry to the house for one weekend after the above stage, but before the settlement (which roughly speaking is equivalent to English "completion").

To make things even more confusing, I sometimes even slip into US parlance such as "closing" instead of "completion" (England).

davidmcn

It's pretty commonplace these days for offers to state the date of entry as "to be agreed".