Selling a house with no building regulations completion from 18 years ago

Jazzking

Hi all,

I've read through a few similar posts on here, mostly from buyers, however I'd welcome any advice on the following situation as a seller.

I purchased my house in 2005, with a mortgage and received a homebuyers survey. The survey came back with the usual recommendations as I expected, including the statement, "your legal advisors should check that local authority notifications and approvals for re-roofing and internal wall removal have been obtained, if needed and all statutory inspections have been made"
I passed the surveyors report in full to my conveyancer to carry out the checks along with the usual local authority searches, was not informed there was any issues, and moved in without a hitch 12 weeks after making an offer.

We've had no structural work done on the property since living here and whilst it is an old cottage with it's peculiarities, had no reason to believe that anything hadn't been carried out in accordance with the building regulations at the time of whenever any previous work was carried out.

Fast forward 12 years and I put the property on the market (same estate agent I bought it from) and we finally have an offer which we accept in February. All going well and nearly set to exchange and our buyers solicitor makes an enquiry to the council asking to see any buildings regulation approval for "change of use from a bookmakers to a three story dwelling" that was submitted by the previous owners in 2000.

The council have no record of a completion certificate being issued so, hoping that it was just a job that was missed by the previous owners, and hoping to tick a box to keep our buyers happy the building inspector comes round with the plans that were submitted in 2000 and, due to the fact they do not correspond at all with the work that was carried out, cannot issue a completion certificate.
Despite me saying that the council did not seem at all worried about enforcing any action as the work started so long ago, our buyers pull out as they're worried about selling in the future.

So - question is - as it stands no completion certificate in place, how to do we market the property if any future searches throw up the same issue? Will someone be happy to buy a property (without the ability to get any indemnity insurance) that has not passed the proper approvals process and, by current specifications is probably unsafe? Making the property match the plans for the approval isn't really an option for us due to the potential expense involved

As a sub-topic, I'm considering taking legal action against my original solicitor for negligence as probably, had I been advised of the lack of BR approval when I purchased and the implications I would probably would not have proceeded with the purchase.

Can post pics of the current floor plans and BR submitted documents if it helps, but looking for any advice on the above please as I know BR aren't the be all and end all, but I'm concerned that this could be a massive hurdle to overcome.

Thanks!

leon103

The house I was looking at buying and didn't have a completion certificate. We said we wouldn't buy without it because it makes the property worth a lot less. So you may need to market the property for a lot less

Hoploz

It's a tricky one certainly. However all may not be lost... think about the fact that most whole houses were built before building regs and therefore they have no completion certificates. Lack of certificate does not mean unsafe.

davidmcn

Jazzking wrote: »

So - question is - as it stands no completion certificate in place, how to do we market the property if any future searches throw up the same issue?

Question for you is - what advice is your current solicitor giving? Given they're the ones who'll need to "sell" this to a future buyer.

Will someone be happy to buy a property (without the ability to get any indemnity insurance) that has not passed the proper approvals process

18 years is getting on for the sort of age where the lack of certification doesn't really matter (e.g. in the Scottish standard contract terms we can ignore anything over 20 years old). Any problems ought to have manifested themselves by now, the council can't/won't enforce, and at best it would be compliant with regulations which are now out of date anyway.

and, by current specifications is probably unsafe?

Unsafe in what way?

Jazzking

Thanks both, yes, I suppose one option is to market it at under "market value" taking into account the lack of sign off, but this is frustrating, given what I paid for it probably assumed BR being OK.

@Hoploz - I agree, however, given that BR application was put in but not completed means that there is an outstanding sign off. I expect had it not been for the change of use, it may have been easier for the previous owners to not submit an application!

My current thinking is to get a builder round to quote on how much to "put it right" i.e. the minimum required to make it meet the regs, and depending on if it's £8k or £38k might determine what I choose to do and what it's marketed at going forward. FWIW, it's increased by less than 20k in 12 years (I'm in the Northwest) so if putting it right is going to cost more than that I'll be pretty annoyed, but maybe it was over-valued in the first place....

Thanks again, I feel like I'm back to [before] square one!

Jazzking

davidmcn wrote: »

Question for you is - what advice is your current solicitor giving? Given they're the ones who'll need to "sell" this to a future buyer.

They have advised to contact the council for a "letter" saying they won't carry out enforcement and also to contact previous solicitor for records of the purchase. The council says it needs to meet the previously submitted plans or a new application put in place. I've not heard back from the previous solicitor yet

18 years is getting on for the sort of age where the lack of certification doesn't really matter (e.g. in the Scottish standard contract terms we can ignore anything over 20 years old). Any problems ought to have manifested themselves by now, the council can't/won't enforce, and at best it would be compliant with regulations which are now out of date anyway.

I agree, and maybe I just got a nervous buyer with an over-zealous solicitor

Unsafe in what way?

no fire escape widows in the attic conversion, just velux windows in the rooff
open plan stairs into a single room downstairs (kitchen/diner/living) with no hallway out to an exit
windows more than 1100mm from the floor
no self closing fire doors anywhere

My worry is asking for BR approval on current specs is going to open up a massive can of worms of work required to make the whole house compliant!

System

Why did the buyers solicitor contact the local authority rather than asking you for the paperwork? If that hadn't happened you could have got an indemnity and everyone could have got on with their life!
Getting building regs approval may be difficult (and expensive) if you have to submit a new application

maisie_cat

leon103 wrote: »

The house I was looking at buying and didn't have a completion certificate. We said we wouldn't buy without it because it makes the property worth a lot less. So you may need to market the property for a lot less

Nonsense, it is only worth a lot less to the seriously risk averse buyer and frankly no seller want's "that" buyer anyway.
Having building regs doesn't not mean it's safe today because anything could have been done in the meantime. Similarly, lack of completion, especially where all the important components like footings, walls & roof have been inspected, can be as safe as houses.
I've had a house with an extension built by the previous owner that wasn't signed, no problems at all. I've also had work done that was compliant and turned out to be unsafe.
I would bet good money that the majority of properties have had work done that it technically certifiable, but hasn't been.

AdrianC

Jazzking wrote: »

So - question is - as it stands no completion certificate in place, how to do we market the property if any future searches throw up the same issue?

In exactly the same way as you did before. It's the exact same property, after all.

Will someone be happy to buy a property (without the ability to get any indemnity insurance)

Indemnity would only pay the costs of any legal action arising from lack of sign-off. There won't be any.


Anyway, you bought it 13 years ago. So why not? Just because this buyer's a nervous ninny who can't get past a piece of irrelevant paperwork old enough to buy itself a pint...

that has not passed the proper approvals process and, by current specifications is probably unsafe?

Woah, woah, WOAH!


Who said it was "unsafe"? Lack of sign-off doesn't mean that. It just means that nobody went round it and ticked all the boxes to say it met the then-current regs. Even if they didn't because it didn't, that doesn't mean it's unsafe. Is your bathroom floor littered with the corpses of those who've died in the 13 years you've lived there?



Whether it met the then-current regs or not, it certainly wouldn't meet current ones even if it had been signed off. If that's "unsafe", then so's 90%+ of houses in the UK.

As a sub-topic, I'm considering taking legal action against my original solicitor for negligence

Save your breath, money, blood pressure. You won't get anywhere.

leon103

maisie_cat wrote: »

Nonsense, it is only worth a lot less to the seriously risk averse buyer and frankly no seller want's "that" buyer anyway.
Having building regs doesn't not mean it's safe today because anything could have been done in the meantime. Similarly, lack of completion, especially where all the important components like footings, walls & roof have been inspected, can be as safe as houses.
I've had a house with an extension built by the previous owner that wasn't signed, no problems at all. I've also had work done that was compliant and turned out to be unsafe.
I would bet good money that the majority of properties have had work done that it technically certifiable, but hasn't been.

A seller should disclose to their EA that there isn't a certificate which will likely result in a lower asking price. Most people need mortgages and a valuation survey will result in a lower valuation for a property. This came from a surveyor themselves. Yes people can have a structural survey but they may make a lower offer based in the extra expense they have.

Mossfarr

I will be in the same position when I sell my house which I inherited from my parents. My Father did lots of work over 40 years ago which was not certified - removal of all chimney breasts, removal of internal supporting wall etc etc.

The house is structurally sound, we had it thoroughly checked when we added an extension but the original work he did does not have building control approval - or indeed planning permission.

I intend to offer to cover the cost of a full structural survey for any buyers when I decide to sell (if I need to)!