Can a bank legally say there was no PPI when there was?

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Hi
We looked into potential PPI claims with our bank not long ago - we received redress on a loan & credit card but we were told there was no PPI on the Mortgage we took out to buy our first house. I was surprised but thought they must be correct and it's a lot of years ago so we don't have the paperwork.
It turns out there was PPI on the Mortgage.
Can the bank legally say there wasn't any if there was? Do we have any rights in regards to this?
Thanks in advance
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  • Silvertabby
    Silvertabby Posts: 9,088 Forumite
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    Are you sure it was PPI? In the case of a mortgage, it was more likely to have been MIG (Mortgage Income Guarantee). Not the same thing at all.
  • Digger02
    Digger02 Posts: 8 Forumite
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    Hi, yes I think it was PPI - that's what we've been told by a third party.
  • Silvertabby
    Silvertabby Posts: 9,088 Forumite
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    Digger02 wrote: »
    Hi, yes I think it was PPI - that's what we've been told by a third party.

    This 'third party' isn't one of those PPI claims management companies, is it? If so, you need a big pinch of salt.
  • Digger02
    Digger02 Posts: 8 Forumite
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    This 'third party' isn't one of those PPI claims management companies, is it? If so, you need a big pinch of salt.
    Lol - it was actually. Should I write to them to ask if it was indeed PPI or MIG? Would they usually confirm this?
  • Silvertabby
    Silvertabby Posts: 9,088 Forumite
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    Digger02 wrote: »
    Lol - it was actually. Should I write to them to ask if it was indeed PPI or MIG? Would they usually confirm this?

    They won't have any idea - they're just 'fishing'. If you don't have any paperwork, and if the bank can't find any records, then they won't be able to wave a magic wand and conjure something up from thin air.

    I've never dealt with any of these companies, but I'm guessing that they will ask you for details of all possible PPI contracts - not just your mortgage - and then submit claims on your behalf for all of them. They will then expect to trouser at least 30% of any refunds.

    They can't do anything that you can't do yourself.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 35,242 Forumite
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    If the bank believes you didn't have PPI, yes, they can legally say they believe you didn't have PPI.
  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 116,610 Forumite
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    but we were told there was no PPI on the Mortgage we took out to buy our first house.

    Most mortgages in the UK are arranged by brokers/advisers. So, if yours was, the lender wouldnt know what insurances you have. They can only see what they arranged.

    Also, most mortgage insurances are not built into the mortgage. They are standalone monthly direct debit. if yours was one of those, the lender may not see an MPPI linked to the mortgage.
    It turns out there was PPI on the Mortgage.

    There may be but it may be a lie by the claims company (as mentioned) - remember that over half of PPI complaints made turn out not to have PPI on them. or it could be another mortgage insurance product. PPI companies seem to mix up things like MIG or life assurance frequently.
    Can the bank legally say there wasn't any if there was?
    Yes. If they didnt sell it as part of the mortgage so dont know about it then they cant say you had it as they dont know you had it. However, if they sold it and know about it then they have to be truthful.

    If you bought a loaf of bread from ASDA but then wrote to Tesco asking if you bought a loaf of bread, Tesco would say no. The fact you bought a loaf of bread from ASDA is unknown to Tesco.
    Do we have any rights in regards to this?

    Common sense applies.
    Lol - it was actually. Should I write to them to ask if it was indeed PPI or MIG? Would they usually confirm this?

    Could be multiple things. Not just those two. You only need to ask the bank if you had PPI. PPI is a specific type of insurance. Its not MIG, its not life assurance or home insurance or income protection or critical illness cover. And all this assumes you used the bank and not an adviser, broker or estate agent. So, you just need to ask if you had PPI. The bank will answer based on what they sold.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • Digger02
    Digger02 Posts: 8 Forumite
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    dunstonh wrote: »
    Most mortgages in the UK are arranged by brokers/advisers. So, if yours was, the lender wouldnt know what insurances you have. They can only see what they arranged.

    Also, most mortgage insurances are not built into the mortgage. They are standalone monthly direct debit. if yours was one of those, the lender may not see an MPPI linked to the mortgage.



    There may be but it may be a lie by the claims company (as mentioned) - remember that over half of PPI complaints made turn out not to have PPI on them. or it could be another mortgage insurance product. PPI companies seem to mix up things like MIG or life assurance frequently.


    Yes. If they didnt sell it as part of the mortgage so dont know about it then they cant say you had it as they dont know you had it. However, if they sold it and know about it then they have to be truthful.

    If you bought a loaf of bread from ASDA but then wrote to Tesco asking if you bought a loaf of bread, Tesco would say no. The fact you bought a loaf of bread from ASDA is unknown to Tesco.



    Common sense applies.



    Could be multiple things. Not just those two. You only need to ask the bank if you had PPI. PPI is a specific type of insurance. Its not MIG, its not life assurance or home insurance or income protection or critical illness cover. And all this assumes you used the bank and not an adviser, broker or estate agent. So, you just need to ask if you had PPI. The bank will answer based on what they sold.

    We arranged the Mortgage directly with HSBC, in branch.

    I asked HSBC via their online PPI claim form if we had PPI they said no but then the CMC has said there is PPI. Not sure where to go from here. I know I can go to the Ombudsman but there's little point if the insurance wasn't PPI and was infact MIG. I don't know how to find out which insurance was actually applied.
  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 116,610 Forumite
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    . Not sure where to go from here.

    Tell the CMC that the bank are saying there is no PPI. Ask the CMC for a copy of the evidence proving there is PPI. My money is that they wont supply it as they dont have any.
    I know I can go to the Ombudsman

    You can only go to the ombudsman if you have complained and the bank have rejected the complaint.
    but there's little point if the insurance wasn't PPI and was infact MIG. I don't know how to find out which insurance was actually applied.
    If you have employed the CMC then they should be telling you.

    Do you have any old bank statements? HSBC MPPi was monthly direct debit standalone from the mortgage. i.e. you had a dd to the mortgage and a dd to the MPPI insurer (and another to the life assurance company if you had life assurance as well). Can you recall having multiple direct debits and cancelling them all when your mortgage ended?
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 26,612 Forumite
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    Digger02 wrote: »
    the CMC has said there is PPI.
    How does the CMC know that you had any insurance at all? Is this information provided by one of those notorious "Free PPI checks"? If so, and the Bank have already rejected your "complaint" on the basis that they have no record of PPI on your mortgage then you are wasting your time pursuing this with any third party.
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