ground to wall plate quote

king132

In the process of arranging trades for a rear 5.3m by 7.3m two storey extension.

Had a fair few quotes from builders to do the entire project to doing smaller jobs.

Had a guy come, who just does ground-works and nothing else. Was quoted £250 incl VAT for a day’s labour. That's for him, a labourer and any machinery needed on site. He reckons 4-5 days to complete the job of everything up to slab. So £1000-£1250 cost with all materials to be supplied by me.

Had a builder come initially just to quote for the brick-work. Was quoted £500/ 1000 bricks and £12 psqm of Block. I estimate roughly just under 3k for brickwork if I were to use him just for that. But he has now said he would do everything including all ground work up to wall plate with steels in place and break-through for 5k (labour only). Materials and grab hire - me

Both trades come quite highly reviewed on mybuilder. The builder is currently finishing off a bungalow from scratch. I’ve been down to see his work and it’s good.

However, I'm inclined to keep the job to two separate trades and see if there's any saving to be had from the builders 5k quote for everything up to wall plate quote. Not just financially but the grounds-worker I had in, I really liked. He does nothing else but ground-work and I think he would be good. I reckon I could probably squeeze in a bit more work for the grounds worker within the 5 days of labour as well, which I’d need to pay separately for at some point anyway. Also I guess the builder would probably just get someone else to deal with the footings anyway with his main trade being a brick layer.


Is the builder’s quote of 5k for everything too good an offer to turn down? Or do I get the ground worker to finish his bit (and a possibly a bit more) then get the builder to brick up to plate, steels in and knock through separately? All for around the same budget?

Furts

I am deeply worried by the groundworkers costings and time frame, plus the rates for the bricklayer. When I then read of steels and knock through alarm bells ring loudly. Couple this with your reasoning and approach and I worry even more.

What professional advice do you have from everybody - Architect, working drawings, Buildings Regulations, Specification, Structural Engineer and design and everything else? The way your post reads sounds like it is being built on the hoof, from a design off the back of a fag packet, and being managed by somebody who does not have the necessary competence.

Now before you shoot me down my perception could be utterly wrong. So no offence intended. However nowhere are you saying "I am a competent Project Manager, I accept my legal responsibilities and everything has been buttoned up by me for the individual trades I am employing and managing" If you are saying this then you will know the Law under the CDM Regs and everything else required of you will be faultless in the audit trail. It is just that your post does not give me that confidence.

There is more to building than just costings - but in fairness you may say everything else is 100% spot on. However you did post at the end of March in a similar vain and forum folks were not enamoured with your logic, your drawing or the professionalism. I am guessing the last month has been spent polishing the rough edges off what was then being proposed. But I still cannot fathom out how you are meeting your CDM Regs responsibility when the implications in your previous post were that you did not have the knowledge to do the work.

Over to you here.

king132

Furts wrote: »

I am deeply worried by the groundworkers costings and time frame, plus the rates for the bricklayer. When I then read of steels and knock through alarm bells ring loudly. Couple this with your reasoning and approach and I worry even more.

What professional advice do you have from everybody - Architect, working drawings, Buildings Regulations, Specification, Structural Engineer and design and everything else? The way your post reads sounds like it is being built on the hoof, from a design off the back of a fag packet, and being managed by somebody who does not have the necessary competence.

Now before you shoot me down my perception could be utterly wrong. So no offence intended. However nowhere are you saying "I am a competent Project Manager, I accept my legal responsibilities and everything has been buttoned up by me for the individual trades I am employing and managing" If you are saying this then you will know the Law under the CDM Regs and everything else required of you will be faultless in the audit trail. It is just that your post does not give me that confidence.

There is more to building than just costings - but in fairness you may say everything else is 100% spot on. However you did post at the end of March in a similar vain and forum folks were not enamoured with your logic, your drawing or the professionalism. I am guessing the last month has been spent polishing the rough edges off what was then being proposed. But I still cannot fathom out how you are meeting your CDM Regs responsibility when the implications in your previous post were that you did not have the knowledge to do the work.

Over to you here.

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT] OK. So the costings are rates which I've been given by the trades people themselves. The £250 a day rate for a grounds worker is fairly common from I've seen and the £500/ 1000. £12psqm bricks/ blocks is also a fairly common rate: [FONT=&quot]https://www.tradesmansaver.co.uk/knowledgehub/what-are-tradesman-pay-rates[/FONT]

Not too sure why you think these would be cause for concern. I actually know people who do brick walls for £350/ 1000 so £500 is for a good bricklayer.

The time frame for footings is more than adequate for a decent mini digger operative to get most digging done in one day 1m deep by 0.6 wide as per building regs drawings. Drains moved, concrete to be poured, DPC and insulation boards put in within 3-4 days? Again I can!!!8217;t see why this would not be achievable. Easy access, simple shape. OK the drains might take a bit longer than expected once the digging begins the ST agreement pretty much states that if it!!!8217;s not in good condition to replace everything. One week tops!

Bearing in mind Building Regs inspections will take place when the footings are dug, once the concrete is poured and to check the drains. It!!!8217;s not as if I or the trades person can exactly !!!8216;hoof!!!8217;it

My architect is also a structural engineer so the building regs drawings I've had done, have steel sizes on them. He sends them to Acivico to have checked. I know people who are building inspectors and they are on hand to advise me.

CDM regulations? OK, You got me, I don!!!8217;t know and haven!!!8217;t read up on this. But these trades people have their own insurance liability according to their my builder profiles. I will check up on this now you!!!8217;ve mentioned it. Thank you.


I!!!8217;m happy to take advice and scrutiny from users on here but given some of the negative comments from you on my previous post and on others posts which i've read !!!8211; it does seem that you and another user do seem to have a bit of habit of almost shooting down people as soon as they!!!8217;ve posted anything related to project managing building work.

Furts

king132 wrote: »

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I!!!8217;m happy to take advice and scrutiny from users on here but given some of the negative comments from you on my previous post and on others posts which i've read !!!8211; it does seem that you and another user do seem to have a bit of habit of almost shooting down people as soon as they!!!8217;ve posted anything related to project managing building work.

Not shoot down, but instead give an approach suggesting realism and professionalism. Acting as "Bob The Builder" can have serious and dangerous consequences. Take your situations - the previous replies were alluding to what competence existed? None of know but the post came across as concerning. You now post again and you want to Project Manage trades. I have pointed out that your approach is illegal because by your own admission you have zero knowledge of the CDM Regs. Which in turn is cast iron proof that you are not competent to be a Project Manager. Here there is no point taking the hump and starting a spat with me - I am simply pointing out the law.

Your previous post about drainage was all about design, buildings regulations and Quantity Surveying. Which is why professionals are involved to come up with answers. Instead you believe you can sort this without that input. Your current post is everyday bread and butter to a Quantity Surveyor but it is apparent you are not taking this approach. Your approach in both scenarios would be fine if you had competence, but do you? The answer here is crystal clear.

Doozergirl

Could you post your maths for £3000 worth of brickwork?

An extension that 7.3 metres deep involves a larger area of brickwork than one that is 5.3 metres deep. I don't know which of the dimensiins corresponds to the wall of the original house.

king132

Furts wrote: »

Not shoot down, but instead give an approach suggesting realism and professionalism. Acting as "Bob The Builder" can have serious and dangerous consequences. Take your situations - the previous replies were alluding to what competence existed? None of know but the post came across as concerning. You now post again and you want to Project Manage trades. I have pointed out that your approach is illegal because by your own admission you have zero knowledge of the CDM Regs. Which in turn is cast iron proof that you are not competent to be a Project Manager. Here there is no point taking the hump and starting a spat with me - I am simply pointing out the law.

Your previous post about drainage was all about design, buildings regulations and Quantity Surveying. Which is why professionals are involved to come up with answers. Instead you believe you can sort this without that input. Your current post is everyday bread and butter to a Quantity Surveyor but it is apparent you are not taking this approach. Your approach in both scenarios would be fine if you had competence, but do you? The answer here is crystal clear.

I’m not attempting to start a spat – You do have some very valid points but it’s just you’ve come across quite counter-productive in some of your posts - ‘design off a fag packet’ and basically being called incompetent really doesn’t help?


I’m here for some help, advice and to learn. This is my first attempt at something like this and I’m happy to take on board ALL views. I’m not in position to hand over the entire project to a single builder, therefore I am going to have to learn and take some of the responsibility on myself.


After your post yesterday I spent a few hours looking into CDM Regs – downloaded the app and will be looking at it more closely before with a view to getting any paperwork or site changes made before any building works starts. Again thank you for pointing that out – it was useful.

king132

Doozergirl wrote: »

Could you post your maths for £3000 worth of brickwork?

An extension that 7.3 metres deep involves a larger area of brickwork than one that is 5.3 metres deep. I don't know which of the dimensiins corresponds to the wall of the original house.

I’m using imperial brick 73mm by 225mm, the width of wall is 7.3m and the side adjacent to the neighbour’s wall will be two courses of block with brick toothed in at the front/ side.


So just two walls to cover with brick 5.3m x 4.8m (at eaves) and 7.3m x 4.8m so roughly 3000 bricks £1500
3x 25m2 +35m2 = 110m2 Block work 110*12 = 1320


Minus brick, block and labour for 4m x 2m gap for bi folds and 2 bedroom window gaps and 1 door gap – use this as my 10% wastage.

Furts

king132 wrote: »

I’m not attempting to start a spat – You do have some very valid points but it’s just you’ve come across quite counter-productive in some of your posts - ‘design off a fag packet’ and basically being called incompetent really doesn’t help?


I’m here for some help, advice and to learn. This is my first attempt at something like this and I’m happy to take on board ALL views. I’m not in position to hand over the entire project to a single builder, therefore I am going to have to learn and take some of the responsibility on myself.


After your post yesterday I spent a few hours looking into CDM Regs – downloaded the app and will be looking at it more closely before with a view to getting any paperwork or site changes made before any building works starts. Again thank you for pointing that out – it was useful.

At no point have I said you are incompetent. Which again suggests all you wish to do is engage in a spat, or battle, with somebody who is offering valid assistance.

You would not be undertaking electrical re-wires because this is regulated work - Part P of the Regs. You would not be undertaking gas connections because this is regulated work - GasSafe. You should not be undertaking Project Management - it is subject to the CDM Regs. Whilst this is an anonymous forum why should I be encouraging somebody to operate out side the Law? OK you say about downloading an app, but that will count for nowt if anything goes wrong during your build project. Similarly a competent contractor should refuse to work for you if you are deficient in your CDM responsibilities. They have a Duty of Care and their insurance will be strict here.

If you are hauled to Court by the HSE it will be no good saying "I downloaded an app" nor saying "my contractors have insurance". Hence my comments serve as a warning. You prefer to see them as an attack on you.

If you are 100% spot on with your CDM procedures then you are almost certain to get away with things. But if you are deficient the consequences will be hell if any thing goes wrong during your build.