Nightmare builder, what are my options?

Aylesbury_Duck

Saved for posterity before OP deletes it in a fit of pique and denies others the opportunity to learn from his situation.

PaulJM wrote: »

Hello all,

I'm usually pretty good at hiring contractors to do work on my house, but I feel I've made a number of mistakes with this one, and would like advice.

In the storms a couple of months go, the roof got blown off my asbestos garage, so I set about getting it taken down and replaced. I settled in a good business that were registered and removed it well (but expensive) and ordered a new one off them, which was meant to come a week after dismantle. However the guys who took it down found the base not quite good enough, with a tree root pulling the old one up, so recommended it was raised and renewed. They weren't able to do that within 2 months, so postponed the new garage. I have no complaints about their service.

In a hurry, I set about getting someone to dig the tree up and sort the base out. I (stupidly now I think) took to Facebook recommendations page to find someone, and got what I thought was a good recommendation. Some builders came, and out of 3, only one quoted. He seemed decent and i agreed for him to do it. He asked for some of the material costs, and I gave him them (a lot of concrete!) as he was a sole trader.

He kind of sent another guy to wrestle the tree on Monday and since then has made up excuses every day about not being able to get concrete and his suppliers letting him down.

On Thursday, he came at 1pm, and decided he'd get it all from b&q! So because he had a small van, he made about 7 trips there to get the stuff, and kind of half laid a base. He didn't finish it but it's probably a couple of hours away, with another agreed tree needing removal, a drainage channel dug, and the turf that he removed replacing (there's a massive trench) , and the whole side of my house full of empty bags and rubble and bits of trees.

He's promised all week he'd have it done. Yesterday he said he'd "swear on his kids life" he'd get it done on Friday, but never turned up.

My issue is that I can't now use my garden because of the trench and rubble (I have a 3 year old), I have turf drying out, and an electrician who can't come for a couple of weeks now, stuff in storage, and a new garage coming a week on Monday, which if I postpone again will charge again for delivery and installation and I'll go to the back of the queue delivery wise.

So I need to make decisions as to whether I get someone else to finish it this week?
Two idiotic decisions of mine - when I looked at the FB recommendation, it was his girlfriend (arg!) and also any agreement I made was on WhatsApp, I did manage to get him to supply an email with the deposit on it stated.

PaulJM

Aylesbury_Duck wrote: »

Saved for posterity before OP deletes it in a fit of pique and denies others the opportunity to learn from his situation.

Good tech skills, Bill Gates

Aylesbury_Duck

PaulJM wrote: »

Good tech skills, Bill Gates

Cheers! :beer:

Doozergirl

I've gone to quite some effort to reply to you. I don't think it's particularly fair to delete what I've written because you don't like what someone else said.

There's no need to throw your toys out. If you don't like a reply, ignore it. There's no need to fight with everyone

I had some ridiculous insults thrown at me last night when I'd gone to a lot of effort to reply. Furts is a bit abrupt but it is to try and stop things happening again. Same as I wrote really. You won't resolve the situation with another randomer.

fezster

If someone is offering a service and is charging for it, they should be competent in being able to provide that service, otherwise they are in breach of contract.

The reality is that you get many different levels of competency and that you have to (perhaps unfairly) take on a level of responsibility for a job which you really shouldn't be obliged to. Not every homeowner knows how a job should be completed, knows the legal responsibilities or knows the technicalities of a job. Nor should they have to. Usually, the old adage of "pay peanuts, get monkeys" is true, but not always. Sometimes the most expensive quote can also lead to a bad tradesman, so it's a minefield for people to navigate. I think Furts points are all valid and should be taken onboard for future reference, but I think sympathy for the OP is also in order.

OP - as has already been said, it seems absurd you cannot delay the delivery of your new roof, with so much notice. This is the avenue you need to go down and then take your time in finding somebody competent to inspect the work already done and to complete the rest of it.

Furts

PaulJM wrote: »

He's kicking at someone when they're anxious about a situation and came for help. I'm aware, and made clear that I'd messed it up, I didn't need telling.

I'm going to delete this shortly due to this kind of sanctimonious reply you get here sometimes, but thanks to the guys above who managed to phrase something without lecturing.

This is all in the public domain, and forum respondents give up their time FOC to give advice. You know that if you wanted individual, confidential professional advice you would have to pay for it. This advice would have been to engage a Structural Engineer to advise on both the tree root and the adjacent tree. Much of the UK is clay soil and here you have an issue - you cannot say a replacement slab "is not difficult" then engage a FB tip and walk away from any responsibilities. Even if you do not have clay, and have say, chalk, there is still a problem.

This structural engineering meeting and report would include a base design, and probably hints on where to go to get a competent contractor.

None of this is rocket science, but you have not followed this route. However, your route has resulted in issues for you, but you have been advised on what to do, and you do not like hearing this.

Part of your grouse is outright impatience and being unreasonable. Your FB chap did not turn in for work yesterday and you are straight onto the Forum asking what should be done. If this is not impatience then what is? What is one day in relation to a lifetime of living? What if this chap had something more pressing to do, family commitments or whatever?


Mixing concrete using B&Q bags is crazy - but you allowed this to happen. There is a possibility this chap has never ordered ready mixed concrete and does not know how to do this, and does not understand concrete mixes. I suspect this chap is trying to scratch out a living and is dependent on impatient, unprofessional, irresponsible clients to put the bread and butter on his table. He may be useless, but even so called useless workers can often turn out good if guided. Which is your role.

Nowhere have you mentioned contracts, payment terms, how much the job was priced at, and so on. Neither have you answered any of my comments on specification, inspection, CDM Regulations and so on. All round I feel you and your worker are a marriage made in heaven. Good luck to you both and fingers crossed you handle the chap in a reasonable manner and this chap does not end up lobbing a brick through your window.

VfM4meplse

Doozergirl wrote: »

Furts is a bit abrupt but it is to try and stop things happening again. Same as I wrote really. You won't resolve the situation with another randomer.

Posts can be misconstrued just as much as emails. In that sense both can be the devil's work. Everything is relative I suppose - if you want downright nasty surf DT for a few minutes and you will find it.

I am a DIY novice but have picked up lots of good advice on this board from Furts (amongst others, inc Doozergirl and Russ). His direct approach might not be everyone's cup of tea, but when Furts shares his advice, I pay attention.

ice_bigfoot

Just a quick note on what has been said about the CDM Regs. Assuming you are a 'domestic client' then you have no automatic duties under CDM. The average person arranging work on their own home is not expected to know about CDM so they are specifically excluded. If you're a business, it's a different matter.

Furts

ice_bigfoot wrote: »

Just a quick note on what has been said about the CDM Regs. Assuming you are a 'domestic client' then you have no automatic duties under CDM. The average person arranging work on their own home is not expected to know about CDM so they are specifically excluded. If you're a business, it's a different matter.

Test cases are inevitable - it is just a matter of time. Perhaps they have already occurred - you would need to ask legal bods here. The crux is simple. The CDM Regs exist with regards ordinary consumers as a mindset "thing". Which means if OP took on his Facebook contact no questions asked, cash in hand, and turn a blind eye to everything then of course this is a blatant contravention of the ethos of the CDM Regs. It is apparent that there was little control, little management and no inspection. Since OP has not given any information one can only speculate - but the scenario sounds bleak from a CDM perspective.

Conversely if the Facebook contact said OP was Project Managaing him then again matters look bleak. Then for a third bleak scenario, if the Facebook contact said he was working under the direction and control of OP things again are grim. Of course one party will dispute the others story, and that is where the legal bods rub their hands with glee.

Now for the elephant in the room. If OP had a Contract with the Facebook contact clearly stating all CDM responsibility rested with the Facebook person then fine. This is the rub. I would wager with almost 99,9% certainty this did not occur. Equally I would wager that 95% of other consumers do not worry about this. Which is all OK until something goes wrong.

Like it or not the CDM Regs were made applicable in recent years to all consumers as a belated wake up call saying the Government was fed up with consumers allowing blatant abuses of any accepted safe working. Plus of course countless other folks evading their responsibilities by claiming to be consumers when they were not so.

I find it bizarre that consumers are so anti and so negative towards the concept of the CDM Regs. The Regs are a way to help diminish, to help evaluate and to help control so many cases of cowboy builders. But it is a two way street - many consumers do not wish to up their game, and many do not wish to be professional!

Pdbaggett

Seriously give the guy a break. 9 times out of 10 a domestic client hires a trades person in good faith and expects a job to be completed correctly and to any guide lines that apply. People are niave if they think for the majority of people it happens any other way. And why should it? The amount of money trades people charge ...

Yes it would be great if everybody had an in depth knowledge of building rules and regs and the time/inclination to perform as much due diligence as talked about above but it just simply doesn't happen.

And furts you seem somewhat knowledgeable and could actually be quite helpful but time and time again I just see you kicking people while they are down and spouting off over and over again at people and I have no idea what you could ever possibly get out of that type of behaviour ? Does it make you feel good to belittle people or be sanctimonious...