Where have all the 20 something’s gone?

Cakeguts

Jaywood89 wrote: »

Cakeguts

In answer to your question my dad was an orderly in a hospital and my mom a book keeper. They were on average wages. I’d like to also add my dad left school at 15 with no qualifications and my mom at 16 with gcse equivalent, she later got a degree in her 30’s for IT and accounting but was unskilled when she entered accounting. So there’s also the fact that job opportunities today are different.

But on your math my parents bought their first house for £40k with a 100% mortgage, a mortgage that was easier to get. They sold that house for 75k 10 years later. They bought their next house for 90k, this was to move us to a much better area, the one i still live in today. This house is now valued at over 300k. It’s not a large house and cannot be made larger. But as I’m an only child we didn’t need a large house. Average houses in are area are 350k plus

Their original house is now worth £160k, so if I were to start where they did I’d first need £16k plus in savings (they didn’t) accounting for lower interest rates I’d say our monthly payments would not be too different. (I think theirs were 6.5% but I’m not 100%. ) my son is coming to secondary school age so like my parents I now want to move to a better school area but the house is £300k, do you think that’s the same situation? Not saying your wrong I just want to know where you get your reasoning from.

I do disagree about wages thought, they have not increased in line with housing prices or costs of living.

Also I’m not saying living without modern amenities is impossible just saying it’s a big ask when the Modern world is changing so much and HAS changed so much in the last 20 years, not necessarily for the better I might add but young peoples perception of life is changing rapidly. I personally think young girls today are ridiculous with their £300 handbags and £50 lipsticks, what’s wrong with abit of primark and Rimmel lipgloss for less than a tenner!? But their phones and internet usage I get because I couldn’t be without them either

First thing is that you can't compare GCSEs to what people took before they were introduced because O levels were much harder than GCSEs. To give you an idea there are now often O level questions on A level papers so the exams that people took at 16 were more like doing A levels now but people took at least 5 of them. There were also exams called CSEs and a grade 1 in CSE was considered the same as a bottom grade at O level so anyone who got a CSE with a grade 1 got what is now called an A level. Because of this what your mum had was more likely to be like an A level or AS level than an exam that is taken at 16 now so she was going to be getting jobs that are now available to people with A levels. Working from that it isn't all that surprising that she could hold down an entry level book keeping job or get a degree in it later. She had much better education qualifications than it might appear now.

It is difficult to do the comparison because not only are interest rates lower now but areas change so what might have been a first time buyer area when your parents bought their house might not be one now. So you have to compare what they bought with what is the first time buyer not so good areas now. Why areas change can be due to schools getting better, new transport like trams being introduced, upgraded road systems, houses with off street parking etc so what you have to do to get a realistic comparison is to find the area that someone on an average wage in those jobs can buy in now. My estimation of their salaries in todays money is about £40k between them. It could have been slightly more.

To help you out I found this house http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-64994494.html which is probably in the same sort of condition that your parents was when they bought it. If you have a look you can probably find something cheaper. Your parents salaries then were probably worth about £40k in todays money so as you say their mortgage repayments probably wouldn't be any different to what they are now. What they did then was to find an area that they could afford to buy a house in and with the same jobs now at the same age it would still have been possible for them to do it. However your parents now would still not be able to get the £300k house as the first one so that hasn't changed.

If two people earning roughly £40k a year now can borrow enough to buy a more expensive house than the £160k one then in terms of salaries houses have got cheaper not more expensive.

When I bought my house the latest gadget was a colour television. This was in the 1980s. I couldn't afford the yearly license fee for colour and pay the mortgage and save for repairs so I had to have black and white television. Lots of people also bought expensive sound systems. I couldn't afford that either. Nothing changes there are always new things for people to spend their money on which they don't actually need. I could watch the news on my black and white telly just as easily as I could on a colour. You can get by with a £7.50 phone contract if you want to. If you spend more than that it is because you are not really interested in saving and you want to spend more.

Jaywood89

Alarea

Good point about the wasting money, something rampant in our generation.

The primark remark was meant for teenagers of today. It was about how teenagers today expect £300 handbags and wear MAC makeup so god knows what they will expect house wise when they are older.

I personally love abit of mulberry and Vivienne Westwood but I don!!!8217;t get given them. And I damn well appreciate them when I do.

Cakeguts

Jaywood89 wrote: »

Moneyistooshorttomention

I very much echo your view there, this is something I have always struggled with,

My parents moved me from an area that had become awful, one they had grown up in but had become full of poverty drugs and crime so we moved our whole lives to a different area so I could have a nice up bringing and I can’t thank my mother enough for that! I lived in a lovely village and went to a nice school. It’s why when I had my own child I refused to move out of the area, my partner and many people couldn’t see why, but I’d always said I’d rather rent and have my kids have a nice upbringing that buy for the sake of ownership, not that I could really afford that anyway. Now our children are getting older my partner sees how it was the right decision. It has been finacially stressful but our kids aren’t exposed to things they would have been if we lived where I had first come from. But now I’m watching everyone I know move 100’s is miles to find affordable housing, very few people I grew up with have stayed in the area, purely can’t afford to buy here. Small starter homes here start at 250k and a family home is well over 350k average 450k really. Young families in their 20’s or 30’s can’t stretch to that.

I always wonder if all the young people have to move away, what will be left? What happens to a community when the future generations can’t join it.

Yes but your parents couldn't afford to buy their first home there either so where you live has never been a first time buyers area. How old were your parents when they bought the house there and remember it was a 2nd purchase they were not first time buyers? What has changed is the expectations of people who want to be able to buy there as 1st time buyers. That is unrealistic. You have to buy where you can afford to buy you can't buy a first house in a really nice area if you don't earn enough. If most people have to be around 40 and have owned a house before somewhere else then that is what people have to do. There aren't special rules for young people who want to live in expensive areas that they can't afford to buy in.

I would like to buy a house here like this one http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-72178292.html but I can't afford the price. So who is going to sell me one for a price that I can afford and why should they?

Jaywood89

Cakeguts

Thanks for the reply. I can see your reasoning but overall I do disagree,

Especially with the education part, my mother had her job because she was extremely intelligent as a person and worked extremely hard, evidenced by her final salary and job role (financial director). She left school and worked as an office assistant for 5 years, then became the office manager before becoming a book keeper which led to her accounting degree. Her entry job was at £6000 a year I!!!8217;d i remember and of that my nan took £2000 in rent.

Anyway that!!!8217;s off topic, my parents bought a house 2 doors down from my nan and 3 doors down from her sister so we!!!8217;re able to stay in their home town, that town is now not very nice and I wouldn!!!8217;t want to live there so I suppose they were lucky that the area they wanted to buy in just happened to be where they came from.

Like I said before I see your point about living within your means. Yes it is a choice and a lot of young people make the wrong one, but the world isn!!!8217;t exactly geared to teaching our youngsters how to budget and hold realistic expectations. It!!!8217;s definitely got me scratching my head though. More so as something I need to consider with my own children. They have so many luxuries today that there isn!!!8217;t nothing to strive or work for.

Cakeguts

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

Wow! again.

At the sheer fact that there are and have been plenty of people living well within their means/being very good with money in fact and still not able to buy a house.

As for "trying to buy in a place where they can't afford to buy" - I very much doubt many are trying to buy in a place outside their home area. Personally the phrase "We hold these truths to be self-evident" about a persons absolute right to be able to buy a home in their own home area is the one I have in my mind.

If one is being good with money and the home aimed for is in their own home area = I believe they have every right to find an affordable home there. Whatever sort of society is it that forces people to move against their will merely in order to be able to manage to get a roof over their head? Not a very humane or reasonable one imo.

I have no idea what you mean by home area. I have lived in Southport, Oldham, Rochdale, Huddersfield and London. Which one of those is my home area?

Jaywood89

Cakeguts in answer to your question my parents here 30 when we moved.

And we only moved there because my aunt had moved with her husband and my mom and aunt liked to live near each other, we wouldn!!!8217;t have known how nice a place it was if she hadn!!!8217;t of moved.

Also I need to add that the area we live in was on the news a few weeks ago as being one of the few places that didn!!!8217;t see a dip on prices during the crash on 2007 and is one of the most expensive places to live outside a London burrow in the country. I wasn!!!8217;t aware of this until then I!!!8217;d just assumed it!!!8217;s how everywhere was so I think my view of homes is abit off. But like I said at the start this issue doesn!!!8217;t affect me personally it!!!8217;s more a general concern for my generation and what it means for the country as a whole in the future

Jaywood89

...also my area back on the 1980!!!8217;s and 1990!!!8217;s had a lot of development all of which saw a lot of first time buyers, these people are now in their 50!!!8217;s and 40!!!8217;s and their children can!!!8217;t afford to buy in the same area so the overall dynamic of the area is changing, we have always had a large wealthy elderly population here, the town centre is a wash with blue perms who brunch on any given day.

Cakeguts

economic wrote: »

Not sure about that, but even if they are smaller now, they are new builds afterall and command a premium just because they are new build. And many new builds come with fancy gadgets and appliances all brand new and all integrated looking plush. there is a premium to pay for this.

My day? Im 34. I only ever bought two properties in my life and all in the last 5 years and both already came with appliances. Both were old so this was reflected in the price but i got my kitchen and bathroom re done and it cost 20k in total. 40 years ago many properties did not come with dishwashers or ethernet ports or electric ovens or steam cookers or microwaves or power showers or combi boilers or thermostats or ceramic tiles etc etc etc. all these things cost, there is a nominal price increase due to these things since 40 years ago as much of it didn't even exist 40 years ago!!

My brand new 2 bed 1980s semi in Oldham had gas central heating and an alarm included in the price. It had a sink in the kitchen and a couple of cupboards. It didn't have a cooker, fridge freezer, washing machine, microwave, dishwasher. I had a baby belling cooker which is a small free standing elecric cooker with two rings on it. I had a second hand washing machine and a new fridgefreezer. I did not have a microwave, or dishwasher or clothes dryer or double glazing. I could not afford to eat out. I had two jobs to have enough money and I did all the cooking and washing in that kitchen. The carpets were second hand except for the one in the living room, the telly was black and white, the furniture was all second hand except for my bed. My mother made the curtains.

Oh and the interest rate on the mortgage was 11%.

The house was in a cheap area next to a large council estate. That was the best I could do.

I fully expect some entitled young person to tell me that it is harder now but who doesn't want to make any sacrifices to their lifestyle like I did.

Red-Squirrel_2

Cakeguts wrote: »

The problem is that there isn't actually anywhere in the country where houses are too expensive for people to buy because in actual fact houses are bought and sold everywhere. However not everyone can afford to buy where they want to. I can't afford to buy a house in Monaco but people do. So are you saying that even though I have found somewhere to live where I can't afford a house someone should be persuaded to give a huge discount on their property so that I can afford my lifestyle choice?

Monaco needs its low paid people though surely? To clean its streets and serve the rich their drinks and patch them up when they crash their expensive cars!

Every city, every area, needs low paid people, and crazy house prices either push them out within a few years or lead to them living in tiny cramped rooms with one drawer in a shared kitchen or substandard housing with unethical landlords fleecing them.

Surely you can't think that's perfectly fine?

Red-Squirrel_2

economic wrote: »

That's not enough. Either their job doesn't pay well in which case its most likely they didn't put effort to search for a well paying job or their IQ is not high enough - both the fault of the person (either through laziness or genetics).

Or they are not saving hard enough and making enough sacrifices. For eg if they can live with their parents for 10 years to save for a deposit then that helps a lot.

Would you want to live with your parents for 10 years as an adult? I love mine and they are good people but I did 18 months back home after uni and that was more than enough for all of us!