Tennant or not?

carpetbelly

Hi (sorry for the essay ),

As I've posted before, my fiancé and her brothers have a house they inherited from their mother. Her old partner is still living there and is still guardian of the youngest brother which has been agreed to be given over to my fiancé and he will come live with us which is what he wants.

This person though turned around to my fiancé the other night when she mentioned that the house would need to be sold once her brother's down here and said something I found disgusting and a total lack of repsect for her mothers memory. He basically said that 'since your mother died, I'm a legal tennant here'. No one's charged him any rent as he's been looking after their younger brother as they were just trying to make it as easy as possible for him to look after the younger brother. There's no rental contract as he just moved in with the mother and wasn't seen as any type of agreement.

Obviously my fiancé is booking an appointment with a solicitor about this because knowing this fellow he's going to have found out his legal rights already. But do any of you landlords/experienced people out there have any idea what these are. I'd just rather obviously go to a solicitor prepared and know what sort of thing they might come out with.

thesaint

carpetbelly wrote: »

<snip> I'd just rather obviously go to a solicitor prepared and know what sort of thing they might come out with.

The solicitor will be working for you, so they won't be tyring to trip you up.

Your situation is complex, I would wait for what they say and then post again if they're is something that you are not sure about.

moneysavinmonkey

squatters rights???

I'm not sure what else he could be referring to- I presume you mum's will didn't mention anything about him staying on in the property & that he hasn't been contributing towarads the mortgage?

carpetbelly

It was her mother, no will, no mortgage contributions... Squatters rights was all I could think of myself as well.

As for the solicitor, the misses wants to use the one that sorted out the parental responsability. And because of this he wants to get the person living in the property currently involved as he was his solicitor to and doesn't want a conflict of interest. So I personally am not sure how much this could tie his hands. I've told her to talk to another solicitor but she wants to go with the one who has all the history behind everything that's happened. And it's her choice at the end of the day, I'm just trying to get all the info I can for her.

It just feels like this man is trying to screw my fiancé and her brothers out of their inheritence a bit while being disrespectful to their mothers memory and I don't like to see that happen to the woman I love.

silvercar

I don't think you can squat with the property owners, squatting implies living in an empty property with no owners permission. The fact that at least one of the owners also lived there implies that this guy had permission to be there.

The status of a person living with the property owner is much weaker than the status of someone having sole use of a property. Is this guy a lodger or a tenant? I would say that, as he had shared facilities with the property owner he is a lodger. He paid no rent and had permission to be there, but in lieu of rent he acted as a guardian of the the child, so he was providing a service in lieu of rent. Maybe that is not a nice way to put it, but because he was looking after the child he was allowed to live rent free. The implication being that he was only allowed to live there and be there rent free because the child needed looking after.

Lodgers have far fewer rights than tenants. I think they can be asked to leave at short notice.

All this is how I would describe the situation; no legal knowledge claimed.

If you agree with my (rational!) explaination, it is important that the brother remains in the house while the lodger is still living there. If the guy was allowed to remain sole occupant of the house then he could claim to a sitting tenant.

carpetbelly

Ooops, I probably haven't explained this right... I work for a bank, numbers are my thing, not words

Basically (we'll call him Bob) went out with my fiancés mother (say Rita for now) and ended up moving in with him as they lived a fair bit apart.

My fiancés mother died and he ended up becoming legal guardian to Rita's youngest son (11yrs old). He is not the father

My fiancé had wanted to take on this role but at the time of all this wasn't in a position to be able to. Now we're settled, her younger brother also wants to come and live with us we want to get that ball rolling (another reason to see the solicitor).

I think Bob though is now looking out for what he can get. He rents out a property he owns in another town and when talk of selling the current property when the younger brother comes and lives with us was brought up he suddenly becomes a 'tennant' of the property. No one even talked about things like kicking him out quickly or anything like that, I mean, when is a house sale ever quick? Or sorting out things like schools, guardianship etc.

I just find it frustrating that I now think Bob will just do what he can to even make a claim to part of the property from having lived there so long with the mother. I assume we might have to get some evidence that he didnt help pay bills or something along those lines.

mightymouse

Hi

If bob is the legal guardian then that needs to be changed, if they were all living as a family before her death and he was contributing to the mortgage then that is another issue.

His role now still is that of Guardian but if that role ceases then he can be asked to leave ie as his job has ended.

He is not a tenant as there is no landlord tenant contract written or spoken.

moneysavinmonkey

mmm. ok I thought from your first post that this man 'Bob' was your fiancé's ex partner but now I understand that he is in fact her mothers partner (not sure what you mean by 'old' - i'm assuming they were still together when she died?)

If 'Bob' was living with your fiancé's mum and they were in a relationship then he potentially could make a claim to a stake in the house. If he made some contribution toward the mortgage or the running of the house he could apply to the courts to get a beneficial interest. I don't know very much about this, the shelter website gives a few details but really I think you should go see a solicitor or the CAB at the very least.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/advice/advice-6609.cfm#wipLive-26412-3

carpetbelly

Yeah, the 'old' wording was used as he was my fiancés mothers partner when she passed away.

Yes, 'Bob' was living with 'Rita' as a couple. Though no one currently bar Bob know's what contributions he was making. I guess it's something to get the misses to see if she can go through her mum's paperwork to see if she was getting anything from Bob but I don't think she was. I remember seeing paperwork for bills to be paid from Rita's estate even for after the date of death which her estate paid for in full and was all in her name.

Might see about giving shelter a call, thanks for that heads up.

I think I need to get the misses to an independant solicitor though. The one she wants to go to is insisting Bob be there too and how can she put these questions forward without giving him the ideas if he hasn't already had them.

Why are some people so underhand!

moneysavinmonkey

Just a thought, but I'm not sure if it would be a good idea to phone Shelter - afterall they are a charity to prevent homelessness and generally all their information is aimed at the tenant/lodger etc etc...

I wouldn't think they woudl really be allowed to help when what you are doing is essentially trying to get someone out of their home (even if morally/financially that is the right thing)

Good idea to look through the paperwork though. Take anything you find to the solicitors.

EmmaJ_3

I found this website useful when looking up what rights unmarried partners who live together have

http://www.advicenow.org.uk/livingtogether