Extension Dispute

Newmover_2

I’m in need of some advice. I've search the forum and cant really find anything similar.

We recently had a smallish extension added to our house. We signed a contract with a local builder, who are long established and came with good references, to project manger and build the extension for a fixed price.

The contract saying they have allowed to dig down to 650mm and for 5 skips to take away the waste. Any further and they will charge on a time and material basis.

Early in the build they verbally said it was a harder job than they initially though. But no direct conversation around any additional cost. After the first stage payment was made they hit us with an unexpected invoice for £3k for additional foundations, an extra 2 skips, and extra 4 days of labour and additional bricks, cement etc.

The extension is on a slight slope running away from the house. I have pictures to show that the depth they went down to at the house side was no more than 650mm. I don’t have the same pictures for the lower end of the slope.

The slope was clearly visible when they survey the site to give us the quote. I honestly cant see how they have incurred this additional work. They did not request approval to do the additional work before it was carried out.

Where do I stand legally with regards them requesting additional payments? I appreciate they have the clause in the contract where they charge on a time and material basis for any additional work but did have request my approval in advance and I can’t see it being justified.

The extra 2 skips are the only thing that I feel obliged to pay as they have provided 3rd party evidence of this. It feels that they quoted low to get the work them immediately added in extra.

Aylesbury_Duck

Newmover wrote: »

I!!!8217;m in need of some advice. I've search the forum and cant really find anything similar.

We recently had a smallish extension added to our house. We signed a contract with a local builder, who are long established and came with good references, to project manger and build the extension for a fixed price.

The contract saying they have allowed to dig down to 650mm and for 5 skips to take away the waste. Any further and they will charge on a time and material basis.

Early in the build they verbally said it was a harder job than they initially though. But no direct conversation around any additional cost. After the first stage payment was made they hit us with an unexpected invoice for £3k for additional foundations, an extra 2 skips, and extra 4 days of labour and additional bricks, cement etc.

The extension is on a slight slope running away from the house. I have pictures to show that the depth they went down to at the house side was no more than 650mm. I don!!!8217;t have the same pictures for the lower end of the slope.

The slope was clearly visible when they survey the site to give us the quote. I honestly cant see how they have incurred this additional work. They did not request approval to do the additional work before it was carried out.

Where do I stand legally with regards them requesting additional payments? I appreciate they have the clause in the contract where they charge on a time and material basis for any additional work but did have request my approval in advance and I can!!!8217;t see it being justified.

The extra 2 skips are the only thing that I feel obliged to pay as they have provided 3rd party evidence of this. It feels that they quoted low to get the work them immediately added in extra.

The bold bit would seem to permit them to charge. How do you think they filled two extra skips if they didn't put the corresponding labour in? Having dug out more than anticipated it seems perfectly reasonable that there are extra material costs, too. Presumably you signed the contract knowing these terms.

Furts

Only you know your local ground conditions but three queries arise. First why have a contract based on 650 deep? Typical foundations would be around 1 metre deep. Second knowing you have agreed to this, then you will have witnessed what was done and dipped depths to ensure your foundations are correctly dug to an adequate depth. So you know what has happened. Third you would have recorded your depths, copied in the builder, and agreed it with the building Inspector, who may also have kept a written record of the depth.

Bear in mind the Buildings Regulations were your responsibility so it was your role to liaise with the Inspector and agree everything was fine. OK you may have delegated all this to the builder but the buck still stops with you

If any of these points reveal weakness, or poor judgement, on your part then you are in little position to complain now the extension has been completed.

If extra work has been done you should pay up. Has extra work been done? - only you know this because only you witnessed what happened.

Doozergirl

I'm in agreement with the two above. The contract allows them to charge for additional depth.

If you have had building inspections then it is a fact that they've dug more than 650mm because the minimum for regs is a 1 metre dig. The 650mm is fill, not dig.

teneighty

Newmover wrote: »

It feels that they quoted low to get the work them immediately added in extra. [/SIZE][/FONT]

Sadly that is quite a common trick. I get really fed up with contractors trying to ask for spurious extras and get the impression they get away with it regularly with domestic clients.

The rule for extras is they must have been unforeseeable at the time of the quote. Therefore unexpected ground conditions that cause extra work excavating the foundations would usually be a legitimate claim as you can't tell what the ground is like until you start digging.

However, if they allowed for 650mm and you have evidence that at least part of the excavation was 650mm then you should go back and ask them where the extra depth is? Just because the site slopes does not mean the excavation is deeper, it just means they have to put a step in the foundation to keep the trench 650mm below the finished ground level.

If they are saying they mis-calculated and although they only went down 650mm it took them 4 extra days and needed 2 extra skips I would suggest that is down to them for not working out their quote accurately.

Furts

teneighty wrote: »

Sadly that is quite a common trick. I get really fed up with contractors trying to ask for spurious extras and get the impression they get away with it regularly with domestic clients.

The rule for extras is they must have been unforeseeable at the time of the quote. Therefore unexpected ground conditions that cause extra work excavating the foundations would usually be a legitimate claim as you can't tell what the ground is like until you start digging.

However, if they allowed for 650mm and you have evidence that at least part of the excavation was 650mm then you should go back and ask them where the extra depth is? Just because the site slopes does not mean the excavation is deeper, it just means they have to put a step in the foundation to keep the trench 650mm below the finished ground level.

If they are saying they mis-calculated and although they only went down 650mm it took them 4 extra days and needed 2 extra skips I would suggest that is down to them for not working out their quote accurately.

The common trick bit is a concern. Following on, this means the 650mm could have been a con, or try on. But the depth could also have been correct if it was say rock or shale. Who knows ...?

There is an underlying issue which as you say frequently crops up. Consumers think building is easy, they give little, or no. consideration to professional help, but problems then crop up. This has always remains a mystery to me. The professionals would not operate like this - schools, hospitals, offices and such like are not built with zero professional input. Yet consumers choose to plough their own furrough. Little wonder problems then occur.

timpal

Think its mostly been said.

What is the contract? What are the terms for variation?

In most of the contracts I administer variations have to be agreed prior to undertaking the work, fundamentally to protect builder and client from this exact situation.

If there was a variation and there was no agreed rates for items (day rates/ skips), we would simply pro-rate the works. So foundations which were 20% deeper would get 20% increase in the original cost (simplified).

If the foundations are deeper, it should be because someone has asked for it. Speak to the BI and see if he can verify the depth.

Most contracts aren't actually 'fixed cost', they are lump sum with mechanisms for variation.

There is usually some recognition of the builder having a degree of experience and making reasonable assumptions. If he's done the neighbours properties, which all needed 1m deep foundations, it would be fair to expect him to allow this at your house. But depends on the contract.

Silvertabby

It depends if your contract was a quote or an estimate.

To the best of my knowledge, a quote is what you pay regardless of any unforeseen snags - but could be inflated to cover all eventualities - whereas an estimate is what it could be as long as no snags crop, up which will increase the price.