How long do boilers take to fit?

WorldTraveller_2

Our very old boiler has finally stopped working - we still have hot water but no heating. Plumber recommends getting a combi which I'll be getting quotes for. The hot water tank in airing cupboard and cold water tank in the loft are also in bad condition apparently, and would be removed anyway if combi fitted. I just wondered how long a new boiler would take to be installed, and would we be able to use water as normal (I'm presuming not hot water though) while it's being fitted? Thank you.

CashStrapped

Just be aware of your options.

Who did you get to check your current boiler? British Gas Homecare? Or an independent gas safe plumber?

The choice of a combi boiler is just one option of many!

I have had a modern boiler put on a traditional system (hot water tank and cold water tanks in the loft).

That retrofit is the cheapest option and requires minor changes.

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A combi is more involved as it requires more pipework changes and removal of the tanks. A combi boiler will also be more expensive. A lot of plumbers like installing combis because it gives them a good return.

Do be aware that a combi boiler is more complicated and therefore may be less reliable. It is therefore important that you check what the warrantee is with new installation.

Vaillient offer 10 year warrantee with new boilers installed by their approved contractors. To benefit from a warrantee the installation must be carried out in a certain way and the boiler must be serviced each year.

How many quotes have you got?

A good installer will give you the options based on the size of your property, number of people and outlets and also based on your local water pressure. If your house supply has a poor mains pressure a combi may not be suitable.

A new boiler installation should only take a few days barring any unforeseen circumstances.

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EDIT:

I have just noticed you have posted more information in the last thread you made in which I replied.

I would just further add!

It is odd that he says the "pump has gone". On a boiler of that age the pump is external to the boiler and is a cheap replacement. Maybe £50!

What does he mean by "tanks are in bad condition". Does he mean they are old?

Please, please get multiple quotes. Take photos and inspect the tanks yourself!

If you still insist on going ahead

Just make sure you get multiple quotes!

WorldTraveller_2

A combi was one option, but he didn't say we definitely needed one, they just looked like a good option to me but I know little about boilers. He was a local independent person who had lots of good reviews - and I got him to replace some bath taps while he was here that other plumbers refused to do as it was too small a job! There are slight leaks to both tanks and I think the pipe to the cold water tank is badly furred up. I'll get a few quotes and see what they all recommend. I just wondered what disruption we'll get in terms of lack of water supply etc while it's actually being fitted.

CashStrapped

All being smooth, 2ish days. If you go for a combi. I requires more pipework changes and removal of tanks. As a combi is a pressurised system, if your radiators are quite old, it may expose any weak connections, so small leaks may become apparent. But, this does not mean you need to replace all your radiators. Just some of the connections. In rare cases a radiator may spring a leak and require replacing.


As a side note, while they have fantastic marketing and are often seen as the Ferrari of the boiler world, Worcester bosch boilers are not that well regarded by a lot of plumbers. You will find that opinion common on many sites where installers frequent. www.diynot.com is a fantastic site for more technical questions.

As I said, just ensure any installer clarifies the warrantee situation.

Sometimes existing systems may need a powerflush to comply, things like that. You want to ensure the warrantee stipulations are complied with and will be honoured by the manufacturer.

There is nothing wrong with a combi as long as you are aware of the shortcomings and it is specified properly for the property.

*I'm still a bit miffed by why he would say the pump failing means the boiler is broken. As I said, the pump is separate from the boiler. It just means it can't pump the hot water around the system.

**Try to look for any model numbers on your boiler other than the brand name. This will clarify the true age.

***Depends where the leak is on the tank. You can get a replacement tank for very little money. The hot water tank may have a leak on the pipework. Again, a small repair!

CashStrapped

I would just clarify that I still think that you may have been given a bit of misinformation and are at risk of ripping out a system that may give many more years of good use.

Based on what you said in the other post, your boiler is still working fine. It is the external pump that may have failed (£50 replacement). Otherwise you would not get hot water!

It may not even be the pump that has failed. A failed thermostat can mean the pump does not get a signal to start. So it may be the thermostat that has broken (£15 replacement). Did they test the thermostat to see if it was sending a signal? Is it an old dial one?

Depending where the leaks are on the tanks, these may be a simple fix. A cold water tank in the loft is a pretty cheap wholesale replacement.

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The only person who can make the decision is you. You know your available funds etc. All I am saying is, don't be hoodwinked into replacing a system, that yes, may be old, but is in good working order. It is a classic rogue tradesman move.

Norman_Castle

I just wondered what disruption we'll get in terms of lack of water supply etc while it's actually being fitted.

There should be a stop tap on the water supply to the boiler so no need for a lack of water although whoever is quoting should be able to tell you for sure.

Removing the water tanks can provide useful space.

WorldTraveller_2

CashStrapped wrote: »

I would just clarify that I still think that you may have been given a bit of misinformation and are at risk of ripping out a system that may give many more years of good use.

Based on what you said in the other post, your boiler is still working fine. It is the external pump that may have failed (£50 replacement). Otherwise you would not get hot water!

It may not even be the pump that has failed. A failed thermostat can mean the pump does not get a signal to start. So it may be the thermostat that has broken (£15 replacement). Did they test the thermostat to see if it was sending a signal? Is it an old dial one?

Depending where the leaks are on the tanks, these may be a simple fix. A cold water tank in the loft is a pretty cheap wholesale replacement.

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The only person who can make the decision is you. You know your available funds etc. All I am saying is, don't be hoodwinked into replacing a system, that yes, may be old, but is in good working order. It is a classic rogue tradesman move.

A few people have now advised us to have a new boiler, and a plumber who came to quote for fixing our bath taps a while ago said that we needed to get the hot water tank replaced, so we're getting the same advice from a few different people. We had been expecting to replace it for quite a while now so it's not a surprise and I'd already earmarked some savings towards it. The heating stopping was the final push I needed to decide to get it done. Will be interesting to see how much we save on our gas bills, I'm hoping quite a lot.

Novice_investor101

I had an old system boiler & tanks in my house when I bought it. The boiler was very old, but worked fine for a year. Then the 2nd winter the pilot light wouldn't work with the timer.
I used virtually no gas in the summer as I have an electric shower so didn't bother heating the hot water tank (washing up could be done by boiling the kettle) & a 1 hour boost would fill a bath on the odd occasion I wanted one.

I opted to replace with a combi so I could have hot water on demand in the summer without the cost of heating a tankful & to free up space in the airing cupboard to store household stuff (very small house).
It took two days with some pipework being rejigged & one tank removed. The cold water one is still in the loft, empty.

It was definitely worth it, & my gas usage is lower with the much more efficient boiler.

Pro's & cons to each type of boiler, but I prefer the combi.

WorldTraveller_2

Novice_investor101 wrote: »

I had an old system boiler & tanks in my house when I bought it. The boiler was very old, but worked fine for a year. Then the 2nd winter the pilot light wouldn't work with the timer.
I used virtually no gas in the summer as I have an electric shower so didn't bother heating the hot water tank (washing up could be done by boiling the kettle) & a 1 hour boost would fill a bath on the odd occasion I wanted one.

I opted to replace with a combi so I could have hot water on demand in the summer without the cost of heating a tankful & to free up space in the airing cupboard to store household stuff (very small house).
It took two days with some pipework being rejigged & one tank removed. The cold water one is still in the loft, empty.

It was definitely worth it, & my gas usage is lower with the much more efficient boiler.

Pro's & cons to each type of boiler, but I prefer the combi.

We're quite frugal by nature so don't use much hot water anyway (we all take very quick showers, use the minimum amount of hot water for washing up etc) so that's why I thought combi might be suitable, as we'll only be paying for the amount of hot water we actually use.

matelodave

There are pro's and con's for both the system boiler (ie with a tank) or a combi.

I preferred a combi myself when we changed our boiler many years ago, but others prefer the system boiler.

Our combi, went into the airing cupboard where the tank used to be and released a load of floor space in the kitchen where the old boiler had gasped it's last when the heat exchanger rotted through (after around 30 years). We still had space in the cupboard for stuff as well as getting rid of the two tanks in the loft.

Combis can be more expensive to buy and there's more inside them to go wrong than in a system boiler. It's also worth considering that they have a pressurised heating system, whereas a system boiler with an open tank in the loft might put less strain on the plumbing and stuff in an existing aged central heating system.

You'll have to get the existing system thoroughly flushed through to ensure that there's no crud left in it to block the smaller waterways in a modern boiler..

CashStrapped

It is always important to actually do the maths in this situation.

For example, your annual use in KWH based on your post in the other thread is 13,578kwh. That is actually around the national average. Considering the unconfirmed age of your boiler, it is pretty good.

Now, worst case scenario your boiler may be 60% efficient, we can't be sure until your find a model number (not brand name).

So with a very rough calculation, taking into account that modern boilers are 90% efficient (this assumes ideal running conditions) you may make a saving of 30% on your annual kwh use.

This would equate to a reduction of around 4000kwh. This would mean, with a new boiler you may see an annual kwh use of around 9500kwh.

But, let us give it the benefit of doubt and say your new annual figure is around 9000kwh, lets look at the numbers.

Annual use of 13,578kwh with the best tariff available = £424 per year

Annual use of 9000kwh based on best tariff available = £302 per year

That is a saving of £122 per year based on the best tariff in each case (for my area).

Then you have to take into account of the installation. Typical cost £3000.

So the savings you make will take 24 years to offset the cost of installation. Considering that the average lifespan of a new combi is far less than that, you may be replacing it before that time. Combis, excluding any warrantee period can also be less reliable, so expect more repairs during that time.

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So, if you have the money, and want to spend a lot to save a little just so you are a bit more efficient, that is fine. Some people do not mind spending money to be more efficient and green.

If your system is constantly breaking down, again, it would makes sense to consider a replacement.

But, if your primary motive is to save money and the current system, minus a few minor faults, is working well. It is far more cost effective to keep it running.

Always do the numbers and look at your options.

If you were ever considering major renovation to the house, then may be the best time to consider a replacing the heating system. But if I were you, I would be inclined to keep the current system running. Especially with your current low gas use.