Small auto cars with hill hold/hill assist

fwor

facade wrote: »

Dual clutch is what puts me off these "modern" autos, I need a torque converter to crawl along in congestion stop starting and not getting above walking pace, for about 40 minutes a day, I can't see any clutch taking that, whereas the torque converter just warms the fluid up a bit.

I had my doubts initially - but having owned a VW T5 DSG auto for 5 years now, it's just not an issue. The 7-speed box has a 1st gear that is very low, and under normal conditions it spends no more than a few seconds in 1st before shifting into 2nd. Even at the slowest of crawling traffic speeds, it has no need to slip the clutch.

I owned a "conventional" auto for 10 years before I bought the DSG, and the only time it's less convenient is at extremely low-speed manoeuvers - such as edging the vehicle up onto ramps.

The big advantage of DSG over an old-style box is that you don't get the big efficiency losses of a torque converter.

Gloomendoom

fwor wrote: »

The big advantage of DSG over an old-style box is that you don't get the big efficiency losses of a torque converter.

Are they that big? Most torque converter boxes lock up in the higher gears so there is no loss in efficiency.

nickcc

Make sure you don't go for cars with continuously variable transmission unless they have hill assist as they will run backwards on hills.

facade

Gloomendoom wrote: »

Are they that big? Most torque converter boxes lock up in the higher gears so there is no loss in efficiency.

Around town they never lock up, only if you can find anywhere with a speed limit of 40 and above (increasingly rare nowadays- most limits seem to come down to 20 sooner or later )

I tried driving the Nee-San in "overdrive off" to see if it would lock up in 3rd at 30mph- it doesn't

I get between 31-33MPG out of the Nee-San around town (so all that paper thin steel does make a difference), it hits high 40s if I can get it upto 55 or so.

Gloomendoom

I'm an old fart. Anything over 30 and I'm happy. I think my car averages low 30's and my wife's 4x4 28 solo or 26 towing.

fwor

Gloomendoom wrote: »

Are they that big? Most torque converter boxes lock up in the higher gears so there is no loss in efficiency.

It's not always easy to tell, because you'll often get several changes at once when a maker changes from conventional auto to dual-clutch.

When I bought mine, it seemed (from comparison between auto and manual models) that there was very roughly 6% improvement in MPG over whatever they now call the urban cycle, compared with the previous generation.

My overall MPG (averaged over all the miles I've done in it since it was new) is 37 - which is way better than I would have expected from a conventional auto (my previous auto van managed just over 30, but that's not a direct comparison as it wasn't a CR diesel).

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

Gloomendoom wrote: »

Are they that big? Most torque converter boxes lock up in the higher gears so there is no loss in efficiency.

On official figures, a modern auto torque box can beat a manual transmission for fuel efficiency - block changes, optimising gear. I tried driving the umpteen geared box on my C220Cdi manually and I couldn't get near changing up through the gears as quickly as the auto box was doing (though manually you couldn't miss out gears, you had to go sequentially). Torquey diesels together with torque converters are just about an ideal match.

Also, I think the gear boxes have shrunk in size and weight, modern designs not needing as big a converter as they used to with lock up clutches etc. When I had a Ford Explorer (4 litre straight 6 petrol, 200+BHP & 230 torque thingies), you would hit the accelerator and the revs would go straight to 3000 revs and stay there until the car had run out of gears (and it didn't have many - I think it was 3 + overdrive) - it totally relied on the torque converter. On the Merc (about 170BHP but similar or more torque, can't remember off hand), it sounds much more like a manual, with a short slip on changes, but basically it is pretty much locked up even in the lower gears.

System

sonypc100 wrote: »

However it doesnt have hill hold like her Megane did and she just cant get used to it. You have to either put the hand brake on

So you actually have to drive it like you do in the UK driving test?

MilduraS

Hi Rich

I recently bought an automatic Citigo and it does have hill hold assist though it took me a while to realise. If your mum still has the car, she needs to press firmly on the brake for 2-3 seconds for it to activate- not always easy when you're coming to a gentle stop on an incline at a junction only to find that the coast is clear and you need to accelerate.

My driving instructor has an i10 and the hill hold is more evident. I find the creep function on the i10 (which the Citigo doesn't have) brilliant for tight manoeuvring. The only downside is that the brakes are far more sensitive on the i10. It takes a lot of practice and restraint to get the happy medium between very gentle braking and emergency stop.

sonypc100

MilduraS wrote: »

Hi Rich

I recently bought an automatic Citigo and it does have hill hold assist though it took me a while to realise. If your mum still has the car, she needs to press firmly on the brake for 2-3 seconds for it to activate- not always easy when you're coming to a gentle stop on an incline at a junction only to find that the coast is clear and you need to accelerate.

My driving instructor has an i10 and the hill hold is more evident. I find the creep function on the i10 (which the Citigo doesn't have) brilliant for tight manoeuvring. The only downside is that the brakes are far more sensitive on the i10. It takes a lot of practice and restraint to get the happy medium between very gentle braking and emergency stop.

Thanks for this. I will try what you say about the longer press, though I did call a Skoda main dealer and asked if hill assist existed on the Citigo or if it could be turned on or retro fit and they did say no but next time I visit I will check what happens with the 2- 3 second press.