Overstayed and paid later, enough defence?

Coupon-mad

"When it became clear that the time paid for (3 hours) may have been slightly exceeded, and those present had insufficient change left, the sign was referred to which advised payment could be made by RingGo or text.

The sign does not state a requirement to pay before any current parking has expired.

So, as those present didn't have a mobile phone, the payment was attempted to be made later that evening. However, it was then discovered that, unlike other remote tariff payment systems (e.g. the DartCharge) the RingGo app does not allow users to change the time being paid for to an earlier time. So the only option after 19:00 is to pay [STRIKE]for overnight, which is[/STRIKE] slightly more than the hourly cost.

This was paid due to no other option being available. See receipt attached. As more than the period present was paid that same day and as it can be proved by the operator's own ANPR camera which cars entered and left the car park, it also can be proved that the car was not at the location after 7pm [STRIKE]overnight parking was never used[/STRIKE]. Therefore there is actually an overpayment not underpayment and no term on any sign was contravened. Under the doctrine of contra proferentem, any error, ambiguity or omission in the drafting of terms on a sign must operate against the trader, and be interpreted in the way which most favours the consumer."

Yes, at POPLA stage you can use that wording (not for first appeal).

All I have changed is a few words to clarify some points, removing the mention that you 'paid for overnight' (no) and to isolate the line in the middle about the sign not telling you that, so it jumps out at POPLA.

Signage issues are a major point that can win a POPLA appeal. But that's all for later, if you are not yet at that stage.

Domthemon

OK many thanks - I really do appreciate all the advice and help and will keep the thread updated. Nothing received yet but I'll be almost disappointed if we don't get one!

Domthemon

Well much to my amazement we have received nothing. As I understand it we would need to receive PCN within 14 days? Does this include Bank Holidays? I've read elsewhere of people getting them over a month later but that presumably means it's worth even less than usual? Hopefully if nothing else this thread has been of some interest to others. Feel a bit sheepish for jumping the gun but had read others had had PCN from this car park for smaller "overstays" so just assumed it would be coming.

Umkomaas

As I understand it we would need to receive PCN within 14 days? Does this include Bank Holidays?

14 days including weekends - if the Bank Holiday falls in that period, it's to your advantage, it's still one of the 14 days.

Coupon-mad

They do not have to issue a NTK within 14 days. NEWBIES thread tells you that.

Domthemon

Sorry, confused now. It was the newbies thread I thought, that told me the 14 day deadline?!

Coupon-mad

No, it doesn't tell you that a PPC MUST use the POFA. They do not have to, and I explain why.

Domthemon

Oh.... Well I've read it several times and am non the wiser so thanks anyway

Coupon-mad

Errrrm, this from that thread you say you have read several times:

Want to dig deeper? Check the compliance of your Notice to Keeper, if the PPC is citing 'keeper liability' under the POFA. Here's a link to Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 which applies in England/Wales only (look for the words shown in paragraph 8 if it's a 'windscreen ticket followed by a NTK', or the words in paragraph 9 if it's a postal PCN only):

[/FONT]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

If the NTK arrives late, this does not make the PCN 'void' but it means there is 'no keeper liability' possible.

If they are a firm which alleges 'keeper liability' under the POFA 2012 (which they don't have to!) the a postal PCN must arrive by day 14 if there was no windscreen ticket.

Or, the NTK must arrive with you between day 29 and day 57 if there was a windscreen PCN.

Some firms (e.g. Civil Enforcement, Highview, Smart Parking and some small PPCs) don't even bother with POFA 2012 wording so the keeper is not liable if you point that out to POPLA.

So, what date was the parking event and what 'date sent' is on the NTK, assuming one has arrived?

Domthemon

"If they are a firm which alleges 'keeper liability' under the POFA 2012 (which they don't have to!) the a postal PCN must arrive by day 14 if there was no windscreen ticket."

It's been shown on many threads that Premier Park allege keeper liability!

So I'm still confused why after 14 days it's wrong to feel even if a letter arrives ill be off the hook (and if YOU read what I have said you will see I've not received one yet)