LBC from SCS solicitors - help

Redx

frankly , I dont understand the circumstances of why the vehicle was there with no permit on display


all I can tell you is what you have read in the BPA CoP, which is quite specific on what a PPC must do to comply with the CoP


you can put them to strict proof of timings , no problem with that , but if the vehicle remained on site for longer than 10 minutes then its hard to defend the indefensible


the poor pictures provided may help, but the evidential pictures are blurry , not the signs themselves


the driver should have parked up , read the signs , realised they had no permit and driven off site asap, that is a fact that cannot be argued against


legal arguments will be based on how many signs there were and where they were placed, how high they were positioned, the amount of info on them (compared to the Beavis case for example)


also landowner agreement


any issues that differentiate it to the BEAVIS court case


any POFA2012 failures


any BPA CoP failures


FORBIDDING SIGNAGE so no contract to park



also, these moron "friends" who told the keeper or driver to IGNORE the pcn,s should be made to pay the full sum due to incompetent legal advice


the time to have gone through all this was in the appeal window to the PPC and afterwards to PPLA , which is how a judge may see it too

Keeboard

Its a university campus and I went to university there at the time. Sometimes I'm late for lectures or stressed from work and in a hurry may forget to buy a parking ticket.

I just noticed, when I asked for evidence for the LBCC, i particularly asked for details of the signs displayed (including height of the sign, font size, size of sign) but they never provided that. Is this something to still ask for? or just wait for court?

They provided landowner agreement, havent had chance to look through thoroughly but when we briefly looked at it seems like the landowner has given authority to UKPC to enforce parking charge notices.

While reading the BPA CoP V6, i noticed this under "Parking charge notice",

"20.5a When issuing a parking charge notice you may use photographs as evidence that a vehicle was parked in an unauthorised way. The photographs must refer to and confirm the incident which you claim was unauthorised. A date and time stamp should be included on the photograph. All photographs used for evidence should be clear and legible and must not be retouched or digitally altered"

Although the argument the signs aren't blurry, evidential pictures have to 'clear' and 'legible', I'm sure that would include the signs too. But then judge may see the additional sign they provided as evidence for that

Other than that, I don't really have an argument, and i feel like i should just pay the !!!!!!!s. I mean if it ends up in court, the most I'll have to pay is what..£400 (£100 per charge, minus £60 debt recovery - in accordance with POFA2012 Schedule 4 paragraph (4)(5)) right?

Thanks

Redx

if the driver failed to adhere to the contract rules, they are in breach of the contract offered by the signage , and the driver could be taken to small claims court for breach of contract


you can ask for what you like , read whatever they may provide, anything that they do not provide you can ask for the judge to read and give a decision on , be it contract with the landowner , signage , the evidential pictures or any other aspect of the case


like I said , to win in court all they have to do is prove they have the correct person as the defendant and that they have a valid legal claim against that person , with evidence to prove it


any loss in court you incur could be the 4 charges PLUS the court costs , so higher than what you said above , at maybe about £480 , assuming you get the debt recovery costs thrown out

Keeboard

The right person as the defendant?

I mean they have the evidence to back their claims. They have photographic evidence and a legal claim since we didnt have a permit. IF they ask why we dont have a permit or parking ticket, we have no answer.

I mean all this makes it sound like we dont have a case, contrary to what CM advice on page 1.

Is it worth fighting just for £200 if we lose! We might as well pay now and avoid court and the hassle behind it.

Redx

CM never said that you had a case on page 1


CM told you what would happen if you lost and is what I told you above in my reply


personally, I dont think you have a case UNLESS they have failed some legal point that tips it in your favour (and I never thought you had one based on what you have typed so far)


the posts in this thread have been about damage limitation and have been telling you what to do at each stage


CM told you on page 1 that if you lost its likely that you would pay the parking charges plus court fees which I also explained above


I just get the feeling that you think that not paying a parking fee is no big deal and should not result in a court case. well it can and does due to there being a parking contract, so more care about where and when you park and any rules there are for permitted parking should be made


so frankly I look at your case as about damage limitation once I read through all the pages , I hoped that you might win on a technicality but strongly suspect you are correct and there is no reasonable defence , but that doesnt mean you should not put them to strict proof and try to convince a judge


even if you lost, you should convince a judge that various costs are thrown out leaving you with 4 parking charges plus court costs - ie :- damage limitation


to me its simple common sense and I dont understand why educated people who go to uni cannot see the wood for the trees


so if you cannot convince a judge that you have a defence , at least they can make a costs order against you for the basic parking charges plus the court fees


which then begs the question as to why you did not pay up when the charges were issued , or take it to popla ?


oh yes, some stupid morons called "friends" gave you free independent legal advice which you acted upon, so you ignored these invoices and didnt check on here first


so like I said, they should be paying for their stupid advice by helping you pay these charges


bear in mind this forum is about parking charges , not legal matters , legal beagles is about legal matters as its says in my signature below every post I make


you seem to be looking for a magic bullet, well there isnt one , this is real life



tough talking I know, but you did ask

Keeboard

Its ok. I think i needed the tough talk.

In terms of damage limitation, are we able to send another part 36 offer for settlement after already sending one?

Thanks

Redx

if they have rejected the previous offer, then yes, keep offering what you think may resolve the matter once and for all


if they go to court it costs them a lot of money , so you need to get them to blink first, plus to point out their errors in their own letters , including the blurry evidence photos etc , its a war of attrition

Keeboard

Yes, they rejected and sent a different offer that we rejected. Its ok if i send a holding letter explaining im in discussion with the driver in review of evidence and sending a part 36?

I'll send another part 36.

Redx, thank you very much.

Redx

I suggest you concentrate on an exit strategy that is acceptable to all parties , but if an MCOL arrives you put them to strict proof on all legal points and let a judge see their evidence , your statements etc and decide


should it get that far, your exit strategy is that if you lost , your CCJ is the bare minimum ; and you pay it IN FULL within one month to have it struck from the register


one thing you will learn from this as a driver of vehicles is to always make sure that you check the conditions of parking wherever you park, simply because all private land (not council or highways england etc) is usually subect to enforcement , even hospitals, GP surgeries , schools , supermarkets , retail parks , leisure centres , gyms , airports, stations , ports etc (nowhere is safe)

Keeboard

Ok, so far my exit strategy is to negotiate with a part 36. Would i have to pay for SCS's court fees also?

You said, "your exit strategy is that if you lost your CCJ is the bare minimum and pay it IN FULL".....how would i lose our CCJ? or is that a typo on lost which was meant to be lose.

Yeah, this experience has definitely been a learning experience and will make sure if i do get ticket then to check terms and conditions and just be more aware in general with parking.

Also the vehicle in question is stolen now. Dont think it makes a difference though.