Paying a PCN on a lease car (slightly unique)

StaffsSW

G24 are another one of the sharks who try to intimidate leasing companies with threats, but they do not take any tickets as far as court action - http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/G24.html

If your leasing company have provided G24 with the hirer details and a copy of the hire/lease agreement, they have done all they need to in order to discharge any liability.

If they are not playing ball, try speaking to the BVRLA, preferably Jay or Nora, and see if they can help educate the leasing company http://www.bvrla.co.uk/content/contact-us

KHarg

I understand and appreciate any advise that is given, believe me. It's my first thread on here (which also took some time to write) and I was looking for help from more experienced people in here. Most answer with a lot of useful information, like yourself for which I am grateful for, but still a few will reply with very direct responses which are very condescending and obviously don't help those who are less-experienced such as myself.


I don't mean to be rude to anyone on here, but I am always of the opinion you should speak to people how you would like to be spoken to. After all the 'enemy' here is the people who issue these notices and not those who merely seek help in appealing. I don't want to get involved in forum tennis with anyone, I am extremely grateful with any advice.


Whilst the 'lease vehicle' question has been asked and answered on here before numerous times (I did check first) it was not clear if they were the driver on each occasion (however I now understand why someone wouldn't volunteer that information). It is though reasonable to assume the claims on here will usually be from the driver, which in this case wasn't so forgive me if 'slightly unique' has been viewed as not unique at all but I felt it did differ slightly, sorry.


The main points to my thread were are G24 registered as other threads suggested not but there website claim different, and if the dates the correspondence received were ok for us to act within.


This has all been answered and more, so I thank you all. Apologies for any offence taken by anyone but we ('people like you') are only seeking help. Not lectures or abrupt responses.


Thanks again.

Computersaysno

Did you read the newbies thread???

KHarg

I re-read the newbies section after the additional information provided on the thread and have submitted the appeal accordingly. Thank you.

KHarg

Speaking to the lease company, it is in fact they that are the registered keeper of the vehicle and my partner is the owner in this particular contract.

Does that change the situation with the appeal as we cannot claim to be the registered keeper on that basis? I have checked the newbies thread and the three examples given all state they are to be considered as the registered keeper. Couldn’t see an example where they were only the owner in the contract.

As the owner do we have the same grounds to request the assignment of liability for the notice (as opposed to the registered keeper)?

The lease company are saying until they receive confirmation the PPC are assigning liability to us, they will still pay any final reminders that are sent to them and bill us?

Thank you.

KeithP

KHarg wrote: »

The lease company are saying until they receive confirmation the PPC are assigning liability to us, they will still pay any final reminders that are sent to them and bill us?

As Fruitcake said this morning, do the lease company have authority to pay that bill and then charge you for it?

Check your lease.
Post here any terms that talk about paying bills on your behalf.

Most leases just talk about fines. You have not received a fine - just a speculative invoice.

KHarg

I will paste the selected T&Cs up when I am in front of my computer, currently posting from my phone.

Thanks.

StaffsSW

KHarg wrote: »

Speaking to the lease company, it is in fact they that are the registered keeper of the vehicle and my partner is the HIRER in this particular contract.

Does that change the situation with the appeal as we cannot claim to be the registered keeper on that basis? I have checked the newbies thread and the three examples given all state they are to be considered as the registered keeper. Couldn!!!8217;t see an example where they were only the owner in the contract.

As the HIRER do we have the same grounds to request the assignment of liability for the notice (as opposed to the registered keeper)?

The lease company are saying until they receive confirmation the PPC are assigning liability to us, they will still pay any final reminders that are sent to them and bill us?

Thank you.

Ok - your partner is the Hirer, not the owner, and you are an additional driver.
The leasing company is the Registered Keeper, but depending on how long the lease is for, your partner is likely to be the Keeper - these are two distinct parties that POFA 2012 acknowledges.
Regina (House of Cars) -v- Derby Car and Van Contracts Limited was a court case in Derby in 2012 where a certain Mr Jonathan Kirk QC helpfully set a precedent to all lower courts and recognises that the "Keeper" is the person with day to day control, and not necessarily the registered keeper.

(the Owner may or may not be the leasing company - it depends who handed over the fund for the vehicle, which could be a asset funder like Lombard, but that's digressing too far)

G24 never send out an acknowledgement to say they have transferred liability, but as soon as you receive a "Notice to Hirer" from them, that is (or should be) enough proof that it has been transferred to you/your partner.

When this arrives, then you can appeal as Hirer, again not naming the driver, and throw a load of defence points at them to get it cancelled for not complying with POFA section on dealing with Hired vehicles.

KHarg

Big help. Thank you.

Fruitcake

You should tell the lease company that once they have told the parking company the name of the lessee, they (the lease Co) have no further liability in law. It is irrelevant whether the PPC confirm transfer of liability or not. Once the hirer details have been provided by the lease Co to the PPC, liability HAS BEEN TRANSFERRED in law.
Get them to confirm they understand this, and that they understand if they pay this, it is nothing to do with you, and they cannot lawfully pass the charge onto the hirer.

Be specific and precise about this. Make sure they understand that they MUST NOT pay this, but must only pass to the scammers only details and information about the hirer as required in the POFA 2012. If they pass on any other information, it will be a breach of the DPA.
Quote the relevant parts of the POFA concerning lease/hire cars, plus a link to the whole of POFA itself to make sure they understand where their obligation to comply with the Act stops.