Claim Form (CEL) | PoC INCLUDED in Claim Form??

denchgang9

Just keeping you guys in the loop - received my N180 DQ form yesterday - filled this out and will email a copy to that same email address and send via post to CEL I take it?

Obviously, will get proof of postage for this.

Umkomaas

denchgang9 wrote: »

Just keeping you guys in the loop - received my N180 DQ form yesterday - filled this out and will email a copy to that same email address and send via post to CEL I take it?

Obviously, will get proof of postage for this.

Just check out the precise process for who to send to and how to deal with this by reading the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 which covers comprehensively everything court-related, from the initial LBA, right through to any court hearing.

denchgang9

Hello again, friends.

Notice of Allocation has arrived... Hearing Date: mid-August (not specifying date in case they're watching...)

Next Steps:
- By 1st week of July, I need to submit Witness Statement and copies of any documents I'll rely upon
- Their deadline to pay the hearing fee is mid-July...

I have 2 issues here:
1. annoyingly, I'm abroad (USA) for the last 2 weeks of July, so I'll struggle to call the court the day after their deadline to pay the hearing fee to check if the hearing has been cancelled - any guidance here on how I can check if I'm free without calling the court??

2. given their deadline to pay the hearing fee is AFTER my deadline to sort out a WS and compile all documents to rely on, it looks like this is actually going to eat up a chunk of my time to get everything together... Does this really need to be as comprehensive and include every possible document as it sounds? Just feels like such a pointless task if they're not even going to pay the fee. Thoughts?

I have of course read countless threads on WS preparation and I think it's most sensible for me to go down the legal argument route as opposed to detailing the definition of "parking" etc as this isn't relevant to my case.

I never actually received the initial PCN though, I did email CEL when I received my very first correspondence from them which was simply a "final reminder before legal action" with an inflated £100 charge. I requested to see the original PCN which they never supplied... No response, and here we are today! Can I rely on this as one of my arguments?

nosferatu1001

I assume they have the same deadline for Witness Statement as well? It woul dbe good to see them have to produce one. If they dont then tell the court...

1) Nope, no way to do so. Jut call when back. Not sure wh ythats an issue?
2) Yes, create a proper WS. If they do turn up, youd look a fool otherwise.

The WS is NOT AN ARGUMENT - it is a set of FACTS. So a FACT is that you never received the NtK. Easy.

denchgang9

Yes it says "the parties must" re: the WS deadline, not just the defendant - so they have the same deadline.

1) Not an "issue" as such, more just a mental burden whilst I'm out trying to enjoy travels, more from a peace of mind perspective.
2) I will get a draft together and upload here in due course.

Thanks for the prompt response!

denchgang9

Hello, I'm drafting my WS now and will upload shortly.

One question: the deadline to submit this is 2nd July (for both myself and CEL it seems), should I hang fire in case they send me their WS before I submit mine?!

Otherwise I'm shooting blind surely? Any pointers would be appreciated, I'm mindful of leaving things last minute as it stresses me out, but equally I don't want to give them the advantage of seeing my WS first and destroying it?

Coupon-mad

Yes, work on your WS but hang fire indeed, as their drivel will be worth shooting down in flames if you get the chance. If not you just shoot it down in flames at the hearing, of course.

denchgang9

HERE WE GO... 1st draft of my Witness Statement!

Please bear in mind I have NOT received the Claimants WS yet so I'm going in blind at the moment, just preparing this on the chance I don't receive theirs before my deadline to submit mine (2nd July)

Am I on the right track here / is this sufficient?!

IN THE COUNTY COURT - Claim No: xxxxxx


Between Civil Enforcement Ltd (Claimant)

-and-

me (Defendant)

_____________________________________

WITNESS STATEMENT
_____________________________________


I xxxx of xxxxxxxx road am the defendant in this case.

1. I am a litigant in person, with no experience of Court procedures. If I do not set out documents in the way that the Claimant may do, I trust the Court will excuse my inexperience. In this Witness statement, the facts and matters stated are true and within my own knowledge. Where they are not within my own knowledge they are true to the best of my information and belief.

2. I am not liable to the Claimant for the sum claimed, or any amount at all and this is my Witness Statement in support of my defence as already filed.

3. The claimant has no direct contract with the defendant permitting liability to transfer to the keeper in the absence of a driver being identified and there is nothing within the POFA, criminal or civil law that permits anyone to make presumptions as to the driver.

4. The Defendant denies being the driver at the time of the alleged contravention, and therefore puts Civil Enforcement Ltd. to strict proof that any contract can exist between the Claimant and the Defendant.

5. Indeed this is supported by Barrister and parking law expert Henry Greenslade who stated in the POPLA Annual Report 2015 (Exhibit 3) that there is no presumption in law that a keeper was the driver and that keepers do not have any legal obligation whatsoever, to name drivers to private parking companies.

6. No Notice to Keeper was received from the Claimant and the Claimant, therefore, has not complied with the relevant statutory requirements under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. In absence of such notices, there can be no cause of action.

7. I never received the original !!!8220;Parking Charge Notice,!!!8221; allegedly issued on XX January 2017, for the incident dated XX December 2016.

8. The first correspondence (Exhibit 1) I ever received from the Claimant with respect to this PCN is dated XX February 2017, as a !!!8220;final reminder before legal action!!!8221;

9. This notice included an inflated charge of £100 and absolutely no details of the location of the alleged contravention, nor any evidence of the vehicle at the scene, contract in place, or time of parking.

10. I did not respond to the brightly-coloured alarmist Notices sent to me by Civil Enforcement Ltd. because I believed they were spam (this sort of scam had been exposed on Watchdog). Also, as I was not the driver and these were not offences or fines from an Authority like a Council, there was no reason or obligation upon a registered keeper to !!!8216;appeal!!!8217; to what appeared to be junk mail. I have since researched this, hence my knowledge that these are non-POFA PCNs, incapable of holding me liable anyway.

11. The first correspondence from the Claimant providing any detail of the location of the incident dates XX March 2017, again with an inflated charge of £140 at this stage.

12. I was never shown the alleged signage contract photos (not one of the !!!8216;PCNs!!!8217; showed the purported signs. As registered keeper, I never saw the !!!8216;contract!!!8217; they are trying to hold me liable for.

13. I sent a letter (see Exhibit 2) via post and e-mail to Civil Enforcement Ltd. to request the initial PCN, allegedly sent to the registered keeper on XX January 2017, for reference, to which I received no response.

14. Barrister and parking law expert Henry Greenslade was the !!!8216;POPLA!!!8217; (!!!8216;Parking on Private Land Appeals!!!8217; independent service offered by the BPA) Lead Adjudicator from 2012 !!!8211; 2015 and Excel was under that Trade Body at the time of the first mentioned in this claim. I adduce as evidence Mr Greenslade!!!8217;s opinion in the POPLA Annual Report 2015 which confirms that there is no presumption in law that a keeper was the driver and that keepers do not have any legal obligation whatsoever, to name drivers to private parking companies. No adverse inference can be drawn from my choice not to respond to what appeared to be spam.

15. The Claimant!!!8217;s vague !!!8220;Particulars of Claim!!!8221; provide no explanation as to what the alleged breach of the terms + conditions are. They have simply provided a date, times and location with no indication as to whether this is a case of overstaying, lack of a paid and displayed ticket, or any other reason which may have breached the T+Cs which were in place during the date of the incident - a copy of which has never been supplied to me.

16. The claimant has failed to comply with Civil Procedure Rules Practice Direction 16 7.3(1), which state that a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the Particulars of Claim (POC). It was not.

17. The Claimant also seeks to recover additional costs from the original amount set out in the POC from £100 to £257.21 which appears to be an attempt at double recovery and which is specifically disallowed under Section 4 (5) of the POFA (Exhibit 4).

18. Furthermore, CPR 27.14 (2) (a) states that the court may not order a party to pay a sum to another party in respect of that other party!!!8217;s costs, fees and expenses including those relating to an appeal, except the fixed costs attributable to issuing the claim.

19. The Claimant is put to strict proof that these costs were incurred.

20. In order to demonstrate that the driver on this occasion failed to pay & display, the Claimant should have evidenced that, of course. Where are the photos of the dashboard showing no P&D ticket displayed? Failing that, as this is an ANPR site, where are the system records showing no payment made on these days? They have not even supplied lists of the VRNs input by drivers on those days, e.g. showing a mismatched payment, wrong VRN or no entry at all that corresponds with this vehicle.

21. A similarly poorly pleaded and evidenced !!!8216;private parking ticket!!!8217; claim was struck out by District Judge Cross of St Albans County Court on 20/09/16 without a hearing, due to the law firm!!!8217;s template particulars being held to be !!!8216;incoherent!!!8217;, failing to comply with CPR 16.4, and ''providing no facts that could give rise to any apparent claim in law''.

22. The Court is invited to dismiss this Claim, and to allow my wasted costs which will be submitted separately and in a timely manner, depending upon whether a hearing takes place. I firmly believe that to pursue me as registered keeper and to submit such incoherent particulars and lacking !!!8216;evidence!!!8217; is wholly unreasonable and vexatious.

23. I believe the facts stated in this Defence Statement are true.


(add name and sign)


Thanks for your guidance, much appreciated!

I'm abroad next week so I need to get this completed today ideally, at the worst case I'll tweak it next weekend before submitting w/c 25 June to be safe, if I receive a WS from the CEL clowns in this time...

Coupon-mad

Looks on the right lines, but I skim read it only!

denchgang9

Thank you - that's reassuring coming from you!!

If anyone else has any more detailed feedback or pointers on my Witness Statement (above), please do drop a comment here - I would really appreciate your guidance, this is still my 1st draft.

I'm planning on delivering this to the court next Wednesday, in advance of the deadline (2nd July)

Thanks guys.