Do you want house price to rise or fall?

ukcarper

GreatApe wrote: »

Why?

Lets imagine the opposite. Lets pretend London had no social homes whatsoever

Lets say I then proposed the state build and rent out at 1/3rd the cost a million social homes.
The question would be why do this?
I would then answer....well I would very much like to hire staff at minimum wage and I cant do that right now but if we import a couple of million low skill low productivity people into London then I can pay my staff min wage to do low status difficult work

The real solution is to sell down 500,000 of the social homes in London especially the ones in Zone 1 & 2. But believe me I am glad your view is the norm that poor people should be in inner London because if the state actually did sell down 500,000 social homes in London that would lower prices and rents considerably and I would be a lot poorer for it.

As usual you are talking rubbish people on low wages can not afford to pay market rent anywhere near London and selling 500,000 social housing would not reduce prices or rent anywhere near enough to make them affordable to anyone on low incomes.

MobileSaver

Chrysalis wrote: »

Accommodation is not a luxury, its a requirement of life.

A roof over your head is a requirement of life but central heating, double glazing, a separate bedroom for each child and a "nice house in a nice area" is not.

The problem with the younger generation is that they have this delusional sense of entitlement to all these things because their parents have them; completely missing that their parents worked for years to get to where they are and almost certainly didn't have such niceties when they were young themselves.

GreatApe

ukcarper wrote: »

As usual you are talking rubbish people on low wages can not afford to pay market rent anywhere near London and selling 500,000 social housing would not reduce prices or rent anywhere near enough to make them affordable to anyone on low incomes.

You say we need low paid workers in London, why?

My argument is if a job needs doing the wages will move up until the point someone is willing and able to do that job. We do not need social housing so poor people can afford to live in London on minimum wages to serve coffee and muffins for millionaires in zone 1

Regarding selling 500,000 of the London social homes. My guess is it would reduce rents and prices by one third sure still expensive but a lot cheaper than it is today. Would you be able to on minimum wage afford £1,000 per month rent in London post social stock sell off rather than £1,500 today? Probably not so whats the solution? It surely isn't everyone subsidizing poverty lifestyle so poor people can afford to live in zone 2 on £8 an hour to pour coffee for millionaires.

Why is this so controversial.
The middle cant afford to live in inner London so they move out
Even some of the rich cant afford to live in London so they move out
Why are 'the poor' that much more important that they have a state given right to be able to live in expensive areas?

London doesn't need the poor
The rest of the country doesn't need nor want to pay additional taxes so poor people can be paid min wage to service millionaires in inner London

Like always its the middle that get shafted by loony lefty policies
40%+ social housing in inner London while the workers train in and out 100 miles a day

GreatApe

MobileSaver wrote: »

A roof over your head is a requirement of life but central heating, double glazing, a separate bedroom for each child and a "nice house in a nice area" is not.

The problem with the younger generation is that they have this delusional sense of entitlement to all these things because their parents have them; completely missing that their parents worked for years to get to where they are and almost certainly didn't have such niceties when they were young themselves.

The problem is primarily kids of middle class parents (say the top 25% in income/wealth terms)

They want the same or better than their parents. And often they want it right now (even though it took their parents a combined 60-80 years of working to get to that stage)
Well by definition only 25% can get into the top 25% the other 75% cant get into the top 25%
Result is they feel hard done by and resentful because you know everyone deserves to get into the top 25% and they can...only they cant

I dont blame the kids they know no better its the parents universities and the system to blame.
Go back to Christian values, be happy with what you have and only compete with yourself
If you covet being the richest man on the street the only thing you will achieve is unhappiness and being resentful

GreatApe

ukcarper wrote: »

As usual you are talking rubbish people on low wages can not afford to pay market rent anywhere near London and selling 500,000 social housing would not reduce prices or rent anywhere near enough to make them affordable to anyone on low incomes.

I can't afford to live in a nice home in zone 1 or 2

Can you please protest for me too, Id like to be subsided into a home I can't afford.
I'm not sure how much London needs me or my skills but it is probably not less so than the postman or shelf stacker to coffee grinder so you can be sure I am needed and your protests wont be in vein

doubletop40

westernpromise wrote: »

I can't see large companies moving to the Midlands. Property there is cheap for a reason: nobody wants to live there.

The effect of HS2 will be an influx into London of people commuting from Manchester. There will be very little interest in the reverse journey. There's nothing to do or see in the north that isn't better in the south, plus the weather is better.

And there was me thinking London attracted the creme de la creme.

ukcarper

GreatApe wrote: »

I can't afford to live in a nice home in zone 1 or 2

Can you please protest for me too, Id like to be subsided into a home I can't afford.
I'm not sure how much London needs me or my skills but it is probably not less so than the postman or shelf stacker to coffee grinder so you can be sure I am needed and your protests wont be in vein

I'm not protesting about anything just saying that your view is to simplistic if you really think London would function without low paid jobs and if housing wasn't subsidised wages would rise enough is unrealistic.

lisyloo

GreatApe wrote: »

You cant complain about not being able to afford X there are lots of things I cannot afford but what you and I and even the single mother on benefits can afford is good quality housing healthcare education and high quality food/goods.

Personally I no longer live in zone 2 London because I cant really afford the £2 million I would need on a house I would like to live in so instead I live outside of London in a house that I do like but it costs 1/4th as much. The fact that I cant live in a nice big zone 2 London house is no indication whatsoever of the merits or pitfalls of free market capatilism

Also I would not say women had it harder than men in the distant past, both had it very very difficult perhaps in different ways but certainly both sexes had very hard lives in the past.

I am not complaining.
I just dont think things are as perfect or as fair as they should be.
My in-laws got £600 a week benefits which was too much and thas not ideal if other people are getting too little.
I choose to pay 7.5% tax on dividends rather than the 20% that other people pay and have little choice about. How is that right?

Im very happy with my lot personally. Im priviledged.
Just dont think things are as fair as they could be.

I agree with you that people living in huts, going down the mines etc. Had it terrible in comparison. That doesnt mean we should accept all unfairness simply becuase were relatively privileged in this country.
You cant complain about people discussing things on discussion boards.
Yes there are worse things happen at sea.
I have it in perspective but like others I still like to discuss and consider how things might be better.

GreatApe

ukcarper wrote: »

I'm not protesting about anything just saying that your view is to simplistic if you really think London would function without low paid jobs and if housing wasn't subsidised wages would rise enough is unrealistic.

what do you think would happen if no shelf stacker could afford to live in London stacking shelves for £8 per hour? what would happen to London? Would the millionaires in London starve to death as the supermarket shelves went unstacked? Or would they decide paying 20% more for their shopping is better than starving?

GreatApe

lisyloo wrote: »

I am not complaining.
I just dont think things are as perfect or as fair as they should be.
My in-laws got £600 a week benefits which was too much and thas not ideal if other people are getting too little.
I choose to pay 7.5% tax on dividends rather than the 20% that other people pay and have little choice about. How is that right?

Im very happy with my lot personally. Im priviledged.
Just dont think things are as fair as they could be.

I agree with you that people living in huts, going down the mines etc. Had it terrible in comparison. That doesnt mean we should accept all unfairness simply becuase were relatively privileged in this country.
You cant complain about people discussing things on discussion boards.
Yes there are worse things happen at sea.
I have it in perspective but like others I still like to discuss and consider how things might be better.

The problem is (and it looks like you are not guilty of this) is that those who say things are not perfect go on to blame the current systems we have. That is a big problem because the current system we have are working amazingly well

Like I said earlier even if I was a super Marxist I would keep my mouth shut just from the sheer evidence of how much and how fast the world is improving under the current system

With regards to not being in nirvana well in engineering we have a saying. Don't let perfection be the enemy of the good. The system is very good it might not be perfect but dont let that blind you to how good the system is.

We literally live in a system where if you dont want to or can not work you still get given a good quality of life. Free education free healthcare free food free housing free information. The biggest problems are not dividends taxed at 7.5% that is neither here nor there. The big problems that remains in the UK are mostly dysfunctional families and individuals causing themselves and their families hell.