small claims court

DoaM

Mistermeaner wrote: »

bailiffs have been unsuccessful in previous recovery attempts, there is no company (sole trader)

That usually makes enforcement easier as he would be personally liable and any personal assets could be seized. The issue is in identifying personal assets.

Mistermeaner

indeed. So how does one enforce a CCJ to recover the money they are owed?

steampowered

Mistermeaner wrote: »

I understood (from https://www.moneyclaimsuk.co.uk/post-judgment-enforcement.aspx ) that the first step would be to get "an order to obtain information" - cost to me £110

This is an application to the court for an order that the Defendant attends court for questioning about his assets. If he refuses to attend you could (in theory) seek an order that he is imprisoned for contempt of court.

In reality, for dodgy people like this, I don't think orders for information are that useful. Better to go straight to the HCEO route or third party debt order route if you know who he banks with.

I know already (from others who have CCJ's already) that this guy does not own a house, vehicle or anything else of value as bailiffs have been unsuccessful in previous recovery attempts, there is no company (sole trader) and also he is not employed.... as I understand that means that basically even if I paid another £110 (minimum) for the various enforcement options I would literally be throwing good money after bad as none of it would ever be recovered

Potentially, yes it could well be a waste of time. If you can't identify any assets he owns then you are going to struggle to enforce.

You did indicate however that you have his bank details, which opens the third party debt order route to you - I doubt his other creditors have tried that.

Perhaps it is time to lobby MPs - failing to turn up to court should IMO result in arrest. failure to pay a debt due on a CCJ should rsult in arrest --- otherwise where is the deterent? As evidenced by this guy there is no deterent so he just keeps on defrauding more and more people

Right, so you believe that people who owe money should be thrown into jail - much like how we used to have debtors prisons in Victorian times. We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Mistermeaner

Perhaps there needs to be a differentiation between consumer debt and debt obtained through fraudulent and wilful misrepresentation

We are the 15th persons from whom this guy took a deposit to do work that was never done; the police have been investigating him for over 12months (after victim 5) and he has received 6 ccjs since the police have been involved ; there are 4 more pending (including me)

This is despite him already being declared bankrupt

Where is the justice here? Who will stop him

Nb the police have said even if he is successfully convicted of criminal fraud he won't see jail

If Victorian dedbtors prisons aren't the answer what is ?

CIS

This is despite him already being declared bankrupt

When was he made bankrupt ?

steampowered

If this person is committing fraud, then hopefully the police would deal with him appropriately.

It can be quite difficult for the CPS to prove a criminal fraud case though, as the burden of proof in criminal courts is higher than the burden of proof in civil courts.

You could well the person to stop him - but only if you can identify where his assets are (if he even has any assets).

Mistermeaner

Bankruptcy was I believe in 2014/2015 both him and his then wife

Police explained the diffiuculty in proving criminal fraud - but even if proven minimal consequences for him

This is my frustration - no justice for me or the other victims, no consequences for him

If I'd known the ccj route was pointless I'd have saved a few quid by claiming a lower sum of money

Mistermeaner

Just reading re 3rd debt orders : for this to work I would need to know his bank (I know which one I paid into but this was 6 months ago)

I also have to pay money to get one of these

And its all for nothing if there is no funds in said account - which I've no way of knowing in advance (and I would guess even if he is still using the same account he keeps it empty)

Again all feels like downside and costs for me and no help from the court system to deliver justice