small claims court

Mistermeaner

Hi

bit of ramble, moan and a few questions...

I got ripped off by a dodgy tradesman... paid a deposit for work that was never done... turns out this guy has done this to dozens of people in my area and there is even a website about him (more fool me for not doing my DD)

There is also now an ongoing police investigation into him for fraud, he (and his wife) have a string of dissolved /active companies and bankruptcies behind them, a variety a CCJs and what appears to be a number of fake names in use at different companies all with the same address

Anyway.... After losing money to this guy already I have pursued though money claim online and have now escalated to county court... all at cost to me. My hearing is in the next month or so and I fully expect to win (as he has not responded to any of the requests from court to submit info etc.). I expect I will end up with him getting a CCJ

Now comes the problem... from converstaions with other victims I will be joining the list of people who already have CCJs against him... he's not paid any of them and some have even shelled out more money to the court for enforcement all of which has led nowhere as apparently he owns nothing

While hopefully he will also get a criminal conviction in due course (althogh that I understand is much harder to prove) none of this gets me or my fellow victims any money back... quite the opposite it actually costs us all more money to go through what appears to be a pointless court process with little or no consequences for this guy

Unbelieveably despite all this going on he continues to defraud people in the same wya he did us a new people are eventually finding the website (after being deffrauded) and joining our victim group and becoming part of the ever growing police investigation

I'm just amazed that there doesn't appear to be any way to stop this guy or any means of getting recompense for losses --- how can this be right?

Surely the guy must have some money... he lives in a rented house, he rents a van, he rents a workshop --- why are the court unable to force him to hand over his money to the people he has defrauded who have CCJs awarded against him in their favour

It all seems so bizarre --- i understand the legalities it just seems that something is wrong with the system as a whole. The court are unsympthatetic and indifferent --- surely this means they are failing at their basic rasion detre which is to deliver justice

Does anyone have any experience of successfully enforcing a CCJ... I've read the options online but all of them cost more money of which there is very llittle chance of recovery

Is this the reason people sometimes turn to the Don Corleones' of this world?

Deastons

Mistermeaner wrote: »

he lives in a rented house, he rents a van, he rents a workshop

Sounds like he doesn't own anything. Bailiffs can't repossess and sell stuff that isn't his.

How did you pay the deposit?

Mistermeaner

bank transfer (in essence cash)... no claim on card company / bank

I get bailliffs can't recover stuff if he doesn;t own it but he surely has money or how is he paying for things? Why can't the court get his money?

agrinnall

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Why can't the court get his money?

It's probably in his wife's name. I think you're throwing good money after bad here.

Mistermeaner

yeah; i think so too - but as a matter of principle I will see this through

I mean more from a justice and fairness point of view something is wrong where a person can get multiple CCJ's for the same thing, pay nothing yet continue to repeat the same fraud again and again - in full knowledge of the courts and police

lincroft1710

It might help some people on here (or their friends and relatives) if you named and shamed and thus stopping some possible further defrauding.

You have little chance of ever getting any money, so perhaps it would be more profitable for the victims to lobby their MPs in an attempt to change legislation so that those owed monies from CCJs have a better chance of getting their money.

pmduk

It's unfair, but it points to doing more research in advance next time.

steampowered

Mistermeaner wrote: »

I get bailliffs can't recover stuff if he doesn;t own it but he surely has money or how is he paying for things? Why can't the court get his money?

The courts can't wave a magic wand. You haven't even got a CCJ yet! So I think your criticisms of the court system are unfair.

The enforcement mechanisms out there are perfectly adequate - and in some cases pretty draconian.

Watch a few episodes of 'can't pay we'll take it away'. That is the HCEO option.

Another good option is to go for a third party debt order against his bank account. As you did a bank transfer you presumably have his exact bank details, so this could be a very good option.

Mistermeaner

steampowered wrote: »

The courts can't wave a magic wand. You haven't even got a CCJ yet! So I think your criticisms of the court system are unfair.

The enforcement mechanisms out there are perfectly adequate - and in some cases pretty draconian.

Watch a few episodes of 'can't pay we'll take it away'. That is the HCEO option.

Another good option is to go for a third party debt order against his bank account. As you did a bank transfer you presumably have his exact bank details, so this could be a very good option.

Hi thanks for your comments; appreciate I don't yet have the CCJ.... but I am being (i think) realistically optimistic!

regards the other enforcement options this is exactly the kind of advice I was hoping for! Thank you

I understood (from https://www.moneyclaimsuk.co.uk/post-judgment-enforcement.aspx ) that the first step would be to get "an order to obtain information" - cost to me £110

I know already (from others who have CCJ's already) that this guy does not own a house, vehicle or anything else of value as bailiffs have been unsuccessful in previous recovery attempts, there is no company (sole trader) and also he is not employed.... as I understand that means that basically even if I paid another £110 (minimum) for the various enforcement options I would literally be throwing good money after bad as none of it would ever be recovered

Or am I misunderstanding?

This is my point generally on the lack of justice - this guys rips me (and numerous others) off; we do the right thing by law which is to pursue him through the courts (at our costs and time).... his normal modus operandi is not to even turn up at court, so costs him nothing....not even his time. He ends up with CCJ which is basically meaningless as in itself achieves nothing in compensating the victim.... the victim is then obliged to spend more of their money and more of their time trying to enforce the CCJ all of which leads nowhere ---- this seems very floored justice as the victim suffers and the guilty gets nothing negative out of this.

Perhaps it is time to lobby MPs - failing to turn up to court should IMO result in arrest. failure to pay a debt due on a CCJ should rsult in arrest --- otherwise where is the deterent? As evidenced by this guy there is no deterent so he just keeps on defrauding more and more people

agrinnall

We don't have debtors prisons any more, are you suggesting that we return to Victorian principles of punishment?

Mistermeaner

agrinnall wrote: »

We don't have debtors prisons any more, are you suggesting that we return to Victorian principles of punishment?

my experience of the current justice system isn't great; more costs for the victims, no costs for the perpetrator - imprisonment is one option

What would you suggest?