Put away your purse & become debt-averse

milann

Pleased the cat is on the mend.
These indeed are worrying times. With all the chopping and changing of policy nobody can make financial plans. I have paid my mortgage and have no debts ( because we watch the pennies) but we still don’t have much spare cash at the end of the month. We bought a motorhome with an inheritance as it was cash we’d never had and wanted to do something we wouldn’t have been able to do otherwise, it enables us to have cheap holidays……we hadn’t been away the previous 4 years….there’s no way I was going to use credit for a holiday. So according to the article because I’ve paid my mortgage I should be able to afford all sorts of luxuries. Our mortgage was less than £200 a month by the end of its term….so it didn’t free up masses of cash each month and I’ve had to finish work. I’m not pleading poverty but nor do I have lots to spare. I’m comfortable and can pay the bills  but if I don’t watch the pennies all that could very quickly change. I wasn’t impressed with the article. It assumed everyone was totally broke or filthy rich with nothing in between. 

Kantankrus_Mare

Just popping in quickly with an update. Got my results from breast biopsy yesterday and its good news. No Cancer found!! The relief is huge! Its been a long long two weeks where I felt my life was on hold. Had a large glass of Vino last night to celebrate. 

Sun_Addict

Kantankrus_Mare said:

Just popping in quickly with an update. Got my results from breast biopsy yesterday and its good news. No Cancer found!! The relief is huge! Its been a long long two weeks where I felt my life was on hold. Had a large glass of Vino last night to celebrate. 

Fantastic news! You must be so relieved!

Humdinger1

Wonderful news @Kantankrus_Mare!  Do you have more plans for groovy yet frugal celebrations?  Fascinating discussion @foxgloves.  I thought I read the G*ardian cover to cover but not seen this article.   So, I used to be paid much much more but used the income to enable debt; the banks and credit card companies were only too happy to enable.  Then as a self employed person, I ran up 140k of debt.   That was my lbm. Over several years, I managed to pay it off.  We now have no mortgage and are both semi retired.   Don't have wads of cash but have no debt; if I can't clear my credit card at the end of the month I don't add items to it.  We go in for conscious spending, taking the environment and tax liabilities for instance into account.  I add to my EF every month, sometimes a small amount but it's about reinforcing the mindset that you don't get into drunken sailor mode, spend the lot and run off laughing. I do a bit of voluntary debt coaching as well; if I can help anyone out of a similar hole or better still help them before the hole starts, fantastic. There is a huge range of reasons for decisions across all incomes.  Hope this isn't too egotistical or a hijack @foxgloves; thanks again for your inspirational thread and all who sail in it.  Love Humdinger xx 

QueenJess

I read that article too, although I have I halfway through as I thought it was silly. @Deni_debt-free_dreamer is right re: the intention of the article, but it wasn’t very well written and seemed to be about a very specific few people who pretend they are struggling when they are not for purposes of social media posts. Since I don’t use social media, I have don’t see any of this and gave up quite quickly with the article. 

The article doesn’t say that much about the article intention in it and talks about things like not putting heating on too early etc. doing it this way suggests if you can afford it you should do whatever you like, but not wasting money just because you have it, being more green, not potentially destabilising the energy supplies etc is important too. It is just poorly written much of it forgets the rule of if the opposite doesn’t make sense, it is nonsense (I can’t remember the name of the rule…). Mind you, that’s also the reason the advanced warning signs annoy me as warning is already advanced and you can’t have retrospective warning..

Baileys_Babe

Wonderful news @Kantankrus_Mare on your results 🤗

I'm glad I didn't read the article I think I would have been frustrated by it.

milann

Great news Kantankarus …..what a relief for you.

Deni_debt-free_dreamer

Kantankrus_Mare said:

Just popping in quickly with an update. Got my results from breast biopsy yesterday and its good news. No Cancer found!! The relief is huge! Its been a long long two weeks where I felt my life was on hold. Had a large glass of Vino last night to celebrate. 

great to hear that  

EssexHebridean

RosaBernicia said:

I usually find Baggini irritating, but that article seems reasonably balanced to me.  He has a point that giving up a holiday or buying less stuff is entirely different than not having the money to make the choice in the first place.  What I would dispute is his assumption that most people on a median income are not living at the stretch of their means - having checked his source data, "Disposable income is the amount of money that households have available for spending and saving after direct taxes, such as Income Tax, National Insurance and Council Tax, have been accounted for." - and it therefore doesn't include housing costs, which have gone up massively. 

Well he's just plain wrong with that suggestion isn't he - Disposable income as I understand it is after the priority bills have been paid - so including things like mortgage and secured loans, and the cost of heat and light, but excluding credit card and unsecured loan debt for example. 

I've not read the article, however the question of some people "playing at being poor" which seems from what is being said to be one of the premises of it is one that has been addressed on these boards numerous times over the years. I have said before that when we were being thrifty and going without in order to clear our mortgage early, I was very conscious to avoid using phrases like "we can't afford..." as the actual situation was that we were choosing not to afford certain things in order to free up money to go to the mortgage.  Yes - in the long term that going without and being considered about what was spent and when was going to lead to us being financially better off - in the same way that now, being mindful about what is spent in order to divert the money to savings will pay off with increased income and hopefully in the longer term increased financial security too. Ultimately though I do dislike suggestions so often inferred in the media that those who are mortgage free have somehow become that way through good fortune or privilege of birth - of course that is the case for some people, but in many other cases it really is the result of choosing to NOT do things that cost money! (And even where the money enabling clearing of a mortgage was for example inherited, I'm not sure I'd class THAT as "good fortune" either - at least not in the traditional sense!) There is still privilege of course - namely that we HAD the money to overpay in the first place, albeit that too was entirely through our own efforts but of course not everyone is in a position to do a job which leaves any surplus after essentials are paid for whatsoever.  One of the best examples of "playing at being poor" I've come across is a well known former Frugal blogger who has been mentioned here before - unbelievable amounts of pleading poverty in spite of debts being incurred due to wanting a certain lifestyle, two above average incomes entering the house. Their lecturing at others about spending etc at it's height was downright insulting and there were some blatant lies being told too - I'd give a brand new off the forecourt car purchase as an example - that was never mentioned on the blog, but became apparent when their partner took to twitter to complain about poor customer service from the main dealer...! So yes - I'd say there certainly IS a subset of society who conflate "being poor" with "choosing to divert their money differently" - and that is incredibly tough on those where there genuinely IS hardship.  If we were still paying a mortgage, we'd still be able to cope with things as they are right now but would be substantially more worried about the increased cost of living than we need to be right now. 

Kantankrus that's BRILLIANT news - so glad you reported back! 

scandimore

I've just read the article and found it a bit grating. All too often I see articles where the writers are desperate for a new angle, what's he really saying here? That he's annoyed at the few people who aren't poor but who claim to be more stretched than they are on social media for attention. I haven't really seen anything like that in terms of seeking attention in a "poor me" way. I did find that using the median for the quoted disposable income is leading - probably not representative for most people. 
However, and I don't know quite how best to phrase it so hopefully this doesnt offend anyone, but I find it is the people with enough money and privilege who tend to have the conversations about how to make their money work better or what can be done to economise. Because I think they're used to autonomy and feel there is freedom to make choices even if they are irked or worried at a reduction in disposable income. Those who are "properly poor" don't have any choice or breathing space and have to just be swept along with whatever the circumstances are so you don't hear these voices as much.