Boiler CH temp?

CashStrapped

Like I said, it is all smoke and mirrors....

What they give with one hand i.e lower standing charges, they take with another, high kwh prices, and vice versa.....

All the tariffs are balanced like this.....

Whatever the comparison site says is cheapest for your annual, accurate kwh figures, is the cheapest tariff, high standing charge or not.....

Novice_investor101

There is a flaw with the USwitch comparison - my current fixed deal is up in June this year. They seem to be basing their comparison for the next 12 months on being on my current tariff until June and then the Scottish Power standard tariff for the remainder after the fixed price deal ends. I'm assuming the SP standard tariff is more costly than the one I am on now.... According to the App, it is.


The results that are coming out cheaper are the fixed price deals.


For comparison the SP standard tariff ( on the App) is:
gas - SC 27.39p a day, unit rate 3.719p
elec - SC 27.39p a day, unit rate 15.563p


My current tariff is:
gas - SC 7.830p a day, unit rate 2.997p
elec - SC 7.83p a day, unit rate 14.158p


A new Scottish Power tariff I am considering moving onto:
gas - SC 8.22p a day, unit rate 3.751p
elec - SC 8.22p a day, unit rate 16.702p


Uswitch says my current spend (using the actual kWh used in the last 12 months) is £511, which is accurate. Then goes on to say my estimated usage for the next 12 months is £646, due to my plan ending in June.


Bristol energy is the cheapest comparison -
Gas SC 11.71p a day, unit rate 3.087p
Elec SC 14.92p a day, unit rate 13.724p


On the new SP plan my bills ( on the actual Kwh's quoted on my last bill) would be:
Gas - SC £30, usage £296.50
Elec - SC £30, usage £251.50 Total - £608 (about £40 less saving than USwitch expects & £100- ish more than my current tariff)


Bristol Energy:
Gas - SC £43, usage £244
Elec - SC £54.50, usage £207. Total - £548.50 (about £38 more than my current tariff - cheaper than the new one with SP).


After spending ages working out the above, it's no flipping wonder people can't be bothered to switch.....


Scottish Power seem to be promoting PowerUp - looks like a pay in advance for your energy deal.
Can't make head nor tail of whether that's good value or not....

System

There is no flaw. They are using Ofgem!!!8217;s cost methodology based on a 12 months forward projection. The default assumption is that consumers will do nothing at the end of a fix, and will default to their supplier!!!8217;s SVT. Use the MSE CEC !!!8216;cost for 12 months on present tariff!!!8217; compared to !!!8216;12 months on these tariffs!!!8217;. Ofgem!!!8217;s cost methodology is only flawed for consumers on a fixed tariff with less than 12 months to run. The methodology is currently out for consultation/review.

I should add that PCW cost calculations now include any shared referral fees (cashback). PCWs do not show !!!8216;family and friends!!!8217; discount which are only available with a link via the supplier!!!8217;s own website, For example, Bulb and Octopus pay £50 after a transfer of supply.

CashStrapped

Correct...

There is usually an option that allows you to compare all tariffs against your current tariff only -

It is a fairly common option across most of the sites.

I was going to mention the ofgem thing, but could not remember the wording, and Hengus beat me to it.

Novice_investor101

I never spotted that option when I was tinkering with Uswitch. May try it again...
But, I think the deal I am on now is pretty unbeatable. Energy prices have risen a couple of times since, if my memory of BBC news is correct.

Novice_investor101

Just wanted to update this thread with my gas usage since I turned the boiler temp down to 73c from 83c, to run in condensing mode.

From 22/1/18 to 21/2/18 when the boiler was at 83c I used:
Gas - 1263 kWh (£41.43)
Elec - 174 kWh (£27.53).

From 22/2/18 to 21/3/18 when the boiler was at 73c I used:
Gas - 1010 kWh (£33.30)
Elec - 151 kWh (£23.93)

The month was a couple of days shorter, but I was also off work the week we had the really cold weather at end of Feb/start of March, so I had the heating on maybe an extra 4 hours each day that week.

My gas usage looks like it has gone down with the boiler in condensing mode, & I can hear water running down the condensate pipe which I never did before. My DD also was dropped when I put the meter readings in on the app, from £55 to £30! I adjusted it back up to £45 a month.
So running at a lower temp with the boiler on longer actually seems to more efficient!

I've got used to the house not heating up as quickly, so no great distress there, either.

System

Novice_investor101 wrote: »

Just wanted to update this thread with my gas usage since I turned the boiler temp down to 73c from 83c, to run in condensing mode.

From 22/1/18 to 21/2/18 when the boiler was at 83c I used:
Gas - 1263 kWh (£41.43)
Elec - 174 kWh (£27.53).

From 22/2/18 to 21/3/18 when the boiler was at 73c I used:
Gas - 1010 kWh (£33.30)
Elec - 151 kWh (£23.93)

The month was a couple of days shorter, but I was also off work the week we had the really cold weather at end of Feb/start of March, so I had the heating on maybe an extra 4 hours each day that week.

My gas usage looks like it has gone down with the boiler in condensing mode, & I can hear water running down the condensate pipe which I never did before. My DD also was dropped when I put the meter readings in on the app, from £55 to £30! I adjusted it back up to £45 a month.
So running at a lower temp with the boiler on longer actually seems to more efficient!

I've got used to the house not heating up as quickly, so no great distress there, either.

I don’t want to burst your bubble but a 73C flow temperature does not necessarily put your boiler into condensing mode. What matters is the temperature of the return flow. It would seem that the manufacturer of your boiler has assumed that you have radiators of adequate size, which are balanced, and will give a 20C return flow differential. At 53C, your boiler will be at the point at which condensing starts.

My system is on from 7.30am through until 10pm. My boiler has a max flow temperature of 70C (set in the boiler profile) which reduces depending on the total CH demand (calculated by the TPI thermostat). When I checked the boiler at lunchtime, the flow temperature was only 46C and the return temperature was 37C. The lower the return temperature the greater the amount of condensing which is taking place, and the higher the boiler efficiency.

CashStrapped

That seems to be a good result....but

....Sometimes experiments like that can be a bit inconclusive as there are lots of variables to consider. Incoming temperature of the mains cold and the variable temperature outside each day, air pressure and wind.

But, if you usage has been lower, and it actually included the cold snap...

Congrats!

re: Did you invest in a programmable wireless digital thermostat? You may find that makes the set-up even more cost effective.

This will enable better temperature management and also allow you to programme it more effectively.

Novice_investor101

I don't think I'll actually be able to go lower than 73c as the combi replaced a very old system boiler & the pipes & rads are the same as before & the house wouldn't even be comfortable. Getting & fitting new oversized rads would be so expensive it would cancel out any saving on gas usage!

I feel it's definitely had an effect in lowering the usage, tbh. & Water running down the condensate pipe where none did before must mean there's some condensing going on.

Not invested in a digital wireless thermostat yet, I wanted to see if just changing the boiler temp would have an impact.
I get paid a bonus at the end of this month, so I'll save some of that & get the boiler man back to install a new thermostat in the summer.

The week after the cold snap I paid an extra £50 to Scottish Power thinking I'd hammered the heating so much & was pleasantly surprised to see I didn't even need to!

System

Novice_investor101 wrote: »

I don't think I'll actually be able to go lower than 73c as the combi replaced a very old system boiler & the pipes & rads are the same as before & the house wouldn't even be comfortable. Getting & fitting new oversized rads would be so expensive it would cancel out any saving on gas usage!

I feel it's definitely had an effect in lowering the usage, tbh. & Water running down the condensate pipe where none did before must mean there's some condensing going on.

Not invested in a digital wireless thermostat yet, I wanted to see if just changing the boiler temp would have an impact.
I get paid a bonus at the end of this month, so I'll save some of that & get the boiler man back to install a new thermostat in the summer.

The week after the cold snap I paid an extra £50 to Scottish Power thinking I'd hammered the heating so much & was pleasantly surprised to see I didn't even need to!

Your boiler flow temperature will fall as heating demand decreases: ie, once rooms etc are up to temperature. What you are setting is the maximum temperature for your boiler in CH mode. Choose a TPI thermostat: these cost £0s not £00s if you choose wisely. What is a TPI thermostat:

https://www.draytoncontrols.co.uk/news/tpi-translated