Potentially being asked to relocate

shaned1985

PasturesNew wrote: »

I'd not do it.

It's too far, too much.

I'd stick to my guns and say "not going; not going to do it" and see if they laid me off.... and, if they did, so be it.

You'd not enjoy the journey anyway, the cost to travel would be prohibitive, you'd hate your job, you'd hate them, you'd hate the grandson so much you'd spit in his face the second he arrives (if he does) .....

Just say "No". Stand your ground .... and if that's it then let it be - but you can't let yourself be the family doormat.

For some jobs and companies and changes in employment etc it's worth it - this doesn't sound worth it at all.

Precisely my plan.

I've just discussed the details of my contract with ACAS. As it has another three years to run and specifies my current location, as well as not accepting any alterations without mutual agreement - They've said that it would be extremely risky for the employer to make me redundant or dismiss me.

shaned1985

TELLIT01 wrote: »

How the owner wishes to treat members of his own family is entirely his business (literally and metaphorically) and has no bearing on whether or not they can force you to relocate.
Following restructing at a company I worked for our office was closed and we were moved about 35 miles. Option was basically accept or leave. We were told that because the move was below a certain distance they could do it without having to offer redundancy. I can't remember what the maximum distance was, and this was back in 2002 so rules & regs may have changed.

Discussed this with ACAS also. As my location is not closing, this rule does not apply.

shaned1985

gettingtheresometime wrote: »

I don't think it would be a case of redundancy - more likely dismissal....do you have an 'any reasonable request' clause in your contract?

Nope, any alteration at all only at mutual agreement by both parties. I went over that also, as refusing with that clause could be deemed as misconduct, but as it is not present, it would not be.

shaned1985

Thanks for the replies, even the ones that were obviously answers I didn't want to hear - I know you're only giving your opinion. Apologies if I came across a bit ratty, just a bit highly strung today because of this. I appreciate people taking the time to respond.

BorisThomson

shaned1985 wrote: »

Precisely my plan.

I've just discussed the details of my contract with ACAS. As it has another three years to run and specifies my current location, as well as not accepting any alterations without mutual agreement - They've said that it would be extremely risky for the employer to make me redundant or dismiss me.

ACAS call centre = chocolate teapot

Are you sure you have a ten year fixed term contract? That would be very unusual.

The reality is that it is very easy to manage someone out of a job if that is what they want to do. A failure to follow a reasonable instruction (helping to establish a new store) would trigger the disciplinary process. Although that in itself is unlikely to constitute gross dismissal, repeated similar behaviour would give them grounds to escalate through the stages within a few months.

TBagpuss

It's a tricky one - as you say, the business is not relocating, so your role is not becoming redundant (as might be the case if your location were closing)

IF they make the request, then at that point, it would be reasonable for you to (in the short term) ask for time to consider, and perhaps take some specific advice at that point from an employment lawyer. Don't hand in your notice, it's in your interests to remain employed and to continue to be paid as long as possible.

They may well argue that it is a reasonable change to your contract, based on the needs of the business (e.g. that they need an experienced, successful person to manage the new showroom)

If that is the case, then you could:

1. Negotiate on terms to move - e.g. salary increase, relocation costs (if you were willing to move nearer to the new location) other benefits such as additional paid holidays - you'd need to consider what would make you feel you could move. OR

2. Explain that you do not wish to move and as you don't have a mobility clause in your contract, and don't think that the proposed move is a reasonable change to the contract in the circumstances, that you wish to remain where you are. OR

3. Explain that you do not wish to move and as you don't have a mobility clause in your contract, and don't think that the proposed move is a reasonable change to the contract in the circumstances, but that if they no longer want you at the current location you would be willing to negotiate a settlement agreement to leave (while you are not redundant, you could base any suggested agreement on what you might be entitled to on redundancy.

If they do insist you move, then you would need advice as to whether, if you refuse and are dismissed as a result, you would be likely to succeed in an unfair dismissal claim.

I'd also consider looking closely at the figures for your current location - if they suggest the move, being able to make a sound business argument for staying put - e.g. your performance compared with the likely performance of someone less experienced, and also (if you do consider moving) negotiate hard for a package which takes into account that you would be starting for scratch - quite apart from the added costs of the change, if any part of your current income is commission or bonus based, talk about how that will be addressed in the first year when you won't have the opportunity to reach your current target, for instance.

if they admit that they are proposing tat grandson would take over, perhaps you could also propose that he shadow you for a couple of months to give him the confidence to them run the new location himself?

shaned1985

BorisThomson wrote: »

ACAS call centre = chocolate teapot

Are you sure you have a ten year fixed term contract? That would be very unusual.

The reality is that it is very easy to manage someone out of a job if that is what they want to do. A failure to follow a reasonable instruction (helping to establish a new store) would trigger the disciplinary process. Although that in itself is unlikely to constitute gross dismissal, repeated similar behaviour would give them grounds to escalate through the stages within a few months.

Not ten years, no, only three. But yes, very sure.

I guess we'll see what happens over the coming months!

shaned1985

TBagpuss wrote: »

It's a tricky one - as you say, the business is not relocating, so your role is not becoming redundant (as might be the case if your location were closing)

IF they make the request, then at that point, it would be reasonable for you to (in the short term) ask for time to consider, and perhaps take some specific advice at that point from an employment lawyer. Don't hand in your notice, it's in your interests to remain employed and to continue to be paid as long as possible.

They may well argue that it is a reasonable change to your contract, based on the needs of the business (e.g. that they need an experienced, successful person to manage the new showroom)

If that is the case, then you could:

1. Negotiate on terms to move - e.g. salary increase, relocation costs (if you were willing to move nearer to the new location) other benefits such as additional paid holidays - you'd need to consider what would make you feel you could move. OR

2. Explain that you do not wish to move and as you don't have a mobility clause in your contract, and don't think that the proposed move is a reasonable change to the contract in the circumstances, that you wish to remain where you are. OR

3. Explain that you do not wish to move and as you don't have a mobility clause in your contract, and don't think that the proposed move is a reasonable change to the contract in the circumstances, but that if they no longer want you at the current location you would be willing to negotiate a settlement agreement to leave (while you are not redundant, you could base any suggested agreement on what you might be entitled to on redundancy.

If they do insist you move, then you would need advice as to whether, if you refuse and are dismissed as a result, you would be likely to succeed in an unfair dismissal claim.

I'd also consider looking closely at the figures for your current location - if they suggest the move, being able to make a sound business argument for staying put - e.g. your performance compared with the likely performance of someone less experienced, and also (if you do consider moving) negotiate hard for a package which takes into account that you would be starting for scratch - quite apart from the added costs of the change, if any part of your current income is commission or bonus based, talk about how that will be addressed in the first year when you won't have the opportunity to reach your current target, for instance.

if they admit that they are proposing tat grandson would take over, perhaps you could also propose that he shadow you for a couple of months to give him the confidence to them run the new location himself?

Thanks, that's all really good advice. I'll definitely look into getting some specialised advice. For what it's worth, I know that I'm in the top 2% for sales across the country, so I can make a good case with my job performance. I realise that it may not count for much as it's going to be the grandson who misses out in the short term, and that may ruffle some feathers.

nicechap

You describe your work as a one man showroom that always delivers.

Would owner be happy to see all those sales? Either to new location (so doubling costs without extra income) or to a competitor when you find commute too much?

Comms69

shaned1985 wrote: »

Not ten years, no, only three. But yes, very sure.

I guess we'll see what happens over the coming months!

but you've been there since 2011?? confused