PIP assessment advice needed

Marketdown1980

pmlindyloo wrote: »

From what you have written you still have time to put in a late appeal as it is less than 13 months.

PIP and DLA are two completely different benefits and, to be honest, there is no point in comparing the two.

I am always wary about recommending people take the PIP self test as it really doesn't go into much detail and can, in some cases give a false impression of what you may be eligible for.

You can read the assessment guide for PIP here:

This goes into a lot more detail.

After reading this if you still think you score more points for the mobility part then go ahead with the appeal. Have you got solid medical evidence about your mobility problems?

And do remember that they will look at the whole award again, not just the mobility part.

It is also worthwhile speaking to a benefits specialist who can go through your disabilities, paperwork and assess your chances of getting the decision overturned before you put in the late appeal.

thanks

i remember when i was going through it all a few months ago reading that they were very strict that if you went to a tribunal over 28 days after the appeal you had to get permission from the DWP and had to show them why you were late and they were the ones that got to decide if you could do the tribunal, i think i'd have a hard time getting that permission from the DWP tbh and just dont want to go through it all again it's so draining, but i know what they awarded was wrong, in the end, especially after they lost my appeal forms and the drama with that, and how bad things were in my personal life it just sucked the fight out of me and i couldnt be bothered anymore

i see what you're saying about not comparing the two systems, and it probably wont do any good, it just seems to me like theyre the same benefit, same amounts, with the bottom two levels missing? is their anywhere that shows the difference between them, i only have been mentioning it because of the recent court ruling regarding PIP and the mobility part being too hard to get for people with mental health problems,regardless of levels i used to get the £21.80 on DLA but not on PIP, so if theyre going to give it to all these people without re-interviewing them i'm wondering other than peoples old DLA scores how else are they going to conclude who gets it, so i think that would clarify if it would be me

Marketdown1980

poppy12345 wrote: »

You keep talking about DLA but that doesn't exist anymore. It's now PIP and they're different benefits so my advice first is to stop comparing them.

If you have good evidence to back up those extra points then there's no reason why you shouldn't take it too Tribunal, as i said in my previous post you have 13 months.

The PIP self test is just a guide, it doesn't mean that's what you'll score. Scoring those points depends on what evidence, if any you sent with the claim. Never rely on them contacting anyone for this because it's rare if they do.

You say following and planning a journey is your problem. When you go out, do you go alone or does someone go with you?

like i just said to the other person, the only reason i'm comparing them is because of the recent court ruling i'd imagine i'm entitleD to some sort of money from the mobility part as i was on DLA BUT NOT WHEN THEY CHANGED IT TO pip BUT IF THEYRE NOT GOING TO USE MY HISTORY OF HAVING GOTTEN IT FOR ALL THOSE YEARS I DONT KNOW HOW THEYRE GOING TO IMPLEMENT who gets it and why without doing interviews?

the articles ive read have said some will get £21.80, i just wanted to know if my score of 4 points will now be good enough to get the lowest rate of PIP mobility?

going out varies between what day it is and where im going, i can go to the shop near me unaided sometimes, but mostly i cant go out at all, when i'm out i do have difficulty and usually have someone with me, and anywhere new or a long journey other people just completely take care of that for me

poppy12345

Marketdown1980 wrote: »

like i just said to the other person, the only reason i'm comparing them is because of the recent court ruling i'd imagine i'm entitleD to some sort of money from the mobility part as i was on DLA BUT NOT WHEN THEY CHANGED IT TO pip BUT IF THEYRE NOT GOING TO USE MY HISTORY OF HAVING GOTTEN IT FOR ALL THOSE YEARS I DONT KNOW HOW THEYRE GOING TO IMPLEMENT who gets it and why without doing interviews?

the articles ive read have said some will get £21.80, i just wanted to know if my score of 4 points will now be good enough to get the lowest rate of PIP mobility?

going out varies between what day it is and where im going, i can go to the shop near me unaided sometimes, but mostly i cant go out at all, when i'm out i do have difficulty and usually have someone with me, and anywhere new or a long journey other people just completely take care of that for me

Using capitals is classed as shouting. You're still comparing the Dla to PIP and they're completely different benefits. 4 points will not get you standard mobility PIP. If you're within the 13 month timeframe then you can take it to Tribunal. If not then you can report changes. Either way, you do risk losing what you already have.

Marketdown1980

poppy12345 wrote: »

Using capitals is classed as shouting. You're still comparing the Dla to PIP and they're completely different benefits. 4 points will not get you standard mobility PIP. If you're within the 13 month timeframe then you can take it to Tribunal. If not then you can report changes. Either way, you do risk losing what you already have.

thanks, i dont use the internet that much, have bone problems and typing is hard, took ages doing the first one so after i noticed i was using caps and had accidentally left it on wrists were hurting badly, but i thought you'd notice it was done at a random time so i wasnt trying to highlight anything

see this is what i'm interested in, how are pip and dla completely different?

you've said it a couple of times and so have others

it seems to me like they're exactly the same but they've removed 1 level of care and made it harder to get mobility

i don't see any other differences?

the rates are the same, bottom rate of mobility was £21.80 and still is

care middle rate was £55 and has now been renamed as the bottom level has been removed but the amount is the same

i dont know much about it but apart from them making it harder to get the mobility part and removing the bottom level of care the scoring systems seem the same

it seems scoring systems, monetary amounts, and levels are the same, they've just tried to get rid of the lower levels, cut as many people as they can, the courts have said no and now it seems it will be even more similar to dla

i do think the government had a massive bill to pay, looked at where they could get the money, came up with the benefits system, looked at dla, said we'll remove all the lowest levels get rid of all the semi serious sufferers, and it seems someone has said you cant do that to the worst off in the country, so someone else has said, fine we'll remove all the lower levels, make it harder to get but call it another name, tell everyone its a different better benefit, we'll have everyone do a face to face interview which wont be done by an impartial medical professional but a private contractor who's mandate is not to see who's eligible but to try and remove as many as possible

thats how it looks to me

but when you say you wont get any mobility with 4 points that seems the case, but with the court ruling i was wondering who will get it then, what points will you have to have scored?

in the mobility questions they're polarized between 4 and 8-10 points, there's no where in between, so when they say people will start getting £21.80 that means those people didnt get 8 points, but will now get lower rate, so how will they determine what score will now go with lower mobility and without, as they have said, interviewing everyone again?

i'd be interested to see what the differences in points and monetary awardments are between pip and dla, its just when you say no way will i get any mobility with 4 points then how will anyone who didnt get 8 points originaly now get lower mobility, if they didnt get lower before that means they scored 4 or 0, there's no other score, so will they now be upped to 8 points, or the threshold be brought down to 4 points

the cout has made it's ruling, the government wont appeal and has said no one will have an interview again, so will those affected get extra points or will the threshold come down?

i didnt know if the info was out there relating to how the benefits and scoring systems are different, how you know the stuff you know, is there a website that shows what the changes are, not just a summary but, "if you was on DLA and got so and so points on PIP that is no longer any good and the points system has changed thus...etc"

i think i might do the trubunal thing and have my day in court, do i contact the benefits office to get permission now, i think i could show how difficult things have been the past few months and why i couldnt do it earlier and get their permission?

Marketdown1980

Penitent wrote: »

I think you've misunderstood the High Court ruling. They're not adding a lower rate. People who are geniuinely only due 4 points won't get an award. It only affects those who should have received points under 1C, 1D, or 1F, but were prevent from doing so when the Government decided to prevent people who suffered from psychological distress from claiming these.

The ruling means that those who should have been awarded 8, 10 or 12 points should have their points adjusted, so they may then receive the standard (8 pts) or enhanced (12 pts) rate.

These are the criteria:
1. Planning and following journeys.
a. Can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided. 0 points.
b. Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 4 points.
c. Cannot plan the route of a journey. 8 points.
d. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points.
e. Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 10 points.
f. Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12 points.

thanks that clarifies a lot and makes sense

i definitely don't think i'll get it now, i don't know how they even gave me 4 points the woman barely asked me a travelling based question, i think how things got worse for me the past couple of years i shouldve gone up not stayed the same but it didnt seem like the interview was formatted like that, it wasnt done to find out what i can or cant do, but it seemed how they can give me the least

i am applicable for at least 8 points but from the interview and their records they'll never know because they never asked about that stuff, i mentioned it when doing the forms but it never came up in interview

makes me think even more now that i should do the tribunal, i wish i could've done it at the time a few months ago after my appeal was done

poppy12345

Marketdown1980 wrote: »

thanks that clarifies a lot and makes sense

i definitely don't think i'll get it now, i don't know how they even gave me 4 points the woman barely asked me a travelling based question, i think how things got worse for me the past couple of years i shouldve gone up not stayed the same but it didnt seem like the interview was formatted like that, it wasnt done to find out what i can or cant do, but it seemed how they can give me the least

i am applicable for at least 8 points but from the interview and their records they'll never know because they never asked about that stuff, i mentioned it when doing the forms but it never came up in interview

makes me think even more now that i should do the tribunal, i wish i could've done it at the time a few months ago after my appeal was done

I'm totally confused...

Muttleythefrog

In a nutshell.... put DLA out of your mind.. amounts paid and levels may appear comparable... but the methodology for assessing entitlement is different and the criteria is different. 8 points gets standard rate.. 12 points gets higher rate... for daily living and mobility. Focus on those descriptors... the statements of disability in the various activities (10 Daily Living, 2 Mobility). In terms of patterns of 2 points... that could relate to claimants who find (are found) across many activities to need some support. I've never heard of a B type person or whatever you have heard... so forget it. In terms of appeal.. look at the possibility... normally expected within a month of your mandatory reconsideration but legally there is potential for later appeal. There are other possibilities as mentioned above... and of course you could be reassessed/reviewed at some point (within the year before award runs out) and try to make a case for improved award. I sense that you might need some supporter to help you in regards to claims like this... you do give me the impression of getting fixated on distracting concepts that could damage your ability to get due award... but then I do too and in the end I got somewhere on my own. Good luck!

Marketdown1980

poppy12345 wrote: »

I'm totally confused...

ok just to clear that bit up, although if you was following the thread but especially the questions i was asking at the start i'd have thought you'd have seen what i meant, maybe i didn't explain it properly, i've read it back though and seems gtg to me but no worries

now it's been explained to me thoroughly, how the process of implementing the courts decision that the threshold for PIP mobility is too high, i can see i will not be one of the people that will all of a sudden be getting a letter through the door saying as a result of this landmark ruling my PIP mobility levels will now change, now i have had that part answered and explained i can see i'm unequivocally not going to be one of those people

doing this thread, hearing that the procedure for me taking my case to a tribunal is still open, for mostly the care component level, but as well to a lesser extent the mobility part, has made me want to do what i couldnt a few months back which is go to court, have them re-evaluate my claim as a whole, bring up parts such as the mobility component which as i said before was barely discussed in interview as though it was already decided i was not eligible, and now that i'm a bit more functional and feel more capable, and know that i still have the oppourtunity to do the tribunal i want to have my day in court and have the decision, which i have stated several times on here was in no way an accurate reflection or summation of my problems, better explained, highlighted and understood

so no to being one of the ones that will auto get PIP as per the courts ruling, but yes to finally doing the tribunal that i was never really able to do and thought that the chance for that particular recourse had gone for good.

Marketdown1980

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

In a nutshell.... put DLA out of your mind.. amounts paid and levels may appear comparable... but the methodology for assessing entitlement is different and the criteria is different. 8 points gets standard rate.. 12 points gets higher rate... for daily living and mobility. Focus on those descriptors... the statements of disability in the various activities (10 Daily Living, 2 Mobility). In terms of patterns of 2 points... that could relate to claimants who find (are found) across many activities to need some support. I've never heard of a B type person or whatever you have heard... so forget it. In terms of appeal.. look at the possibility... normally expected within a month of your mandatory reconsideration but legally there is potential for later appeal. There are other possibilities as mentioned above... and of course you could be reassessed/reviewed at some point (within the year before award runs out) and try to make a case for improved award. I sense that you might need some supporter to help you in regards to claims like this... you do give me the impression of getting fixated on distracting concepts that could damage your ability to get due award... but then I do too and in the end I got somewhere on my own. Good luck!

thanks

firstly yes, i think as part of some of the problems i have i do get a bit fixated on things, as you referenced sometimes the wrong thing that has no or little bearing to what i'm trying to achieve

sometimes so much so that it may even have an adverse or detrimental impact on what i'm doing as other areas that are more pertinent go unattended, so i have taken the advice of others on here and just dropped out the memory of DLA

the reason i mentioned it so much was that i thought the high courts ruling and the government saying they wont do any interviews as a result of it would mean that historical evidence, points scoring etc would be taken into account, a new lower level applied etc, i thought somehow my history of having been on DLA would be a factor when they recalibrated the PIP new awards without doing any interviews

but someone explained what the procedure would be, and having a better understanding of it now i can see i wont be getting the mobility part of PIP re-instated and that the evidence that they draw on to decide who gets what without doing anymore interviews wont include a look at what levels you used to get, or lowering the points scoring levels to that of previous DLA levels

which is pretty much what i was asking in my first post lol, but folk on here have been helpful and looking online i only found the same story 100 times in different formats but the same wording quotes and info, so this has been helpful

i was assessed 5 months ago now, i think it was early- mid november actually when my mandatory reconsideration appeal was rejected

so i do feel re-enthused to do the tribunal thing, i had downloaded all the forms (someone helped) written it all out, but i just couldnt send it off, i was in a bad way and didnt want the hassle

it sucked knowing they'd got it wrong and i did think i had a good chance at tribunal but not having the motivation or capability at the time to see it through, someone does help with a lot of this stuff so will be on side if i do go through with it

do i just now call the PIP section of dwp and ask to get permission to do the tribunal?

i think they might be a bit offish about it, i remember reading at the time you have 28 days or have to show good reason to them why you needed extra time, so it's in their hands now from what i understand? they could say no, you didnt do it in time, and going to a tribunal would be a waste of everyones time, i mean i can show i was going through a real bad patch but whether they'd be receptive to it i'm not sure, really would like to have my day in court now though

thanks again

[Deleted User]

It looks to me like you need a little help preparing a tribunal case, helping you see what you need to focus on. It is hard because it took me weeks to fill in the PIP forms because the forms didn't easily allow me to say what I needed to to describe my problems doing the activities they asked about.

So.., please either approach a charity that specialises in helping people with whatever condition you have or go to the CAB.

Write a list of questions you have.

I hope you will take the case to Tribunal. Clarify with whoever you talk to whether you still can. I am sure you can, but you might have to explain why you didn't pursue it within 28 days. You certainly have plenty of valid reasons as to why.

I wish you every success.