PIP assessment advice needed

Marketdown1980

hi guys

didn't quite know how to compose the title so this was as close to the questions i have that i thought summarized best what i wanted to ask

i'll give a bit of the back story to start:

i've been on income support then ESA for about 10 years

about 6 years ago someone mentioned as things had gotten worse for me that i might be entitled to DLA, i didn't know what it was but they was a professional and said they'd do the forms for me so i said ok

it turned out i was applicable for the lower rate of both and recieved £178 a month

in 2015 the DWP wrote to me telling me i was being moved from ESA work related to ESA SUPPORT GROUP, THIS CAME OUT OF NOWHERE BUT I GOT SOME EXTRA MONEY AND DIDN'T HAVE TO GO TO THE INTERVIEWS ANYMORE SO I DIDNT MIND, A FEW MONTHS LATER I WAS SENT OUT a huge bundle of forms saying that i had to update my claim for DLA

I was with my partner at the time and things had gotton much worse with my condition, they had been like that for some time, probably why i was moved ESA groups and she said that i probably shouldnt inform the DWP things had gotten worse, that they'd be more intrusive, and because i was having now to do the forms myself (the person that had done them some years previous i was no longer in touch with) she thought i wouldnt do a good job of communicating properly the problems i was having, that i shouldnt rock the boat etc

it was her contention just keep it as simple as possible, not to stress myself with the forms and say everything is pretty much the same, but it wasn't, so i didn't, she was right though it was a massive stress it took a couple of days to do and i had to write front and back 5 extra pages

anyway they determined that i should now get the middle rate of care, (same rate of mobility) so i now got £308 a month

i got a £20 increase i think from changing ESA groups, and then they sent a letter say i could get the severe disability premium, which i subsequently qualified for

i phoned them after and said that i had been having those problems for a couple of years should it not be backdated, they said no the onus is on me to inform them, but if the forms hadn't of come out i'd have never have bothered telling them anything, i have a condition/conditions which are quite changable, and the last thing on my mind when something happens is i better tell the DWP

things in the past couple of years have gotten immeasurably worse, my life collapsed

so september last year i had to have my interview for PIP

i had it, i thought my money would go up, i didnt know how this all worked but knowing how bad things had gotten and it all having to do with my problems assumed it would

someone showed me the new PIP scoring system online

reading it i was sure under the new system i would get higher care, and standard mobility

as it turns out i got 11 points on care so it stayed the same, and 4 points on mobility so got nothing

i didnt care at first, but when i read the summary i was furious, the points ascribed to my problems were ludicrous, as was the summation of my problems!

it didn't resemble my problems or how they affect me at all

so i appealed it, someone i knew it turned out was good with forms and knew about this stuff so helped me, i wrote such a thorough appeal, and added new letters atc

the person that helped me sent it recorded delivery but they still managed to lose it, so i was in contact with them phoning daily to see if they found it, i finally talked to the manager dealing with my appeal, who said she'd found it, read it, and asked me a few basic questions, which i answered, she sounded frustrated as i put my case across, explaining why i was so incredulous that out of 8 points on the care part of each question i scored just 1 or 2 points when i'm actually the perfect example of that problem

to which she replied: "you're band B, you cannot score more than 2 points per question no matter how bad things are"

she didnt tell me what her decision was but from this i deduced she wasnt overturning the original decision, which was confirmed a few days later in the post

one of the main problems ive always had and been getting the benefit for i told her was even worse but the person at the interview had said i was partially ok with, and this was the worse part of things, she dismissed me again saying that she had to go with what was said at the interview, i did not say this in interview, it would be ludicrous and has been the main point for the way my problems have affected me all she needed to do was red my original letter, my appeal, or the three forms i'd done over the last 7 years it wouldve showed this is my main problem, regardless what the assessor said my answer was in the interview

like i said i was furious, it seemed to me like PIP is just DLA with the bottom two levels removed, i think back to 2015 when i had to re fill out the form, if i hadnt given a full disclosure and just done what my gf told me then if i hadnt got my benefit upped then no way would they have done it at the PIP assessment, i can see now their mandate in changing DLA to PIP and the assessment is to remove as many people as possible, from the lower end, so im glad at least i wrote the form properly in 2015 as i fear if i went into that assessment on the bottom two levels as bad as things had got i'd have been awarded nothing, this was not an assessment done impartially to award more, but formatted to award less

so i geared up to do a tribunal appeal, filled out all the forms, downloaded them, got ready to go to court, got new letters, but i just couldnt do it, i went through a bad patch with my illness, everything was very down and low, i just thought i'd let them win

then my dads friend got awarded PIP, and hed got 11 points also, never scoring over 2 points, but in different catagories, so it made me think there was some credibility to what the lady on the phone had told me, about being in band B whatever that was and never being able to score 12 points

this was further substantiated by the recent PIP mobility court decision, that the threshold is just too high, travelling being one of the problems that had gotten really bad for me

so the questions i have is:

1) i know i had 28 to do a tribuneral appeal and didnt, is it now too late, if i wanted to appeal it would it entail me having to do my claim all over again?

2) what is the band B thing? why can't i ever score more than 2/8 points under their system, is it a scam to make sure i can't get the higher one or do they just format the total number of 11 points and spread them out amongst different groups so that they dont add up to 12, it's just from what the woman frutratingly told me, i could never get 12 points! it makes me think the new way it's set up is rigged, so can i never get 12 points, is it simply not possible to score more than 2 out of 8 points for a band B person on any given question?

3) will i be affected by the courts mobility PIP ruling, i keep seeing it mentioned the higher threshold making me think it will only affect those on lower that should be on higher, is this correct? one article i read said some would get £21, some would get £53, and some would be a bump from £21 to £53 so what i'm asking is how are they making it easier to get, i was on lower and got 4 points, this was good enough for £21 when it was DLA, NOW YOU NEED 8 POINTS FOR £21 will i be one of the people who's case is looked at again?

4) is PIP just DLA with the bottom two components removed, i think it would help me better understand what my options are, why this has happened, why when my life got so much worse and if any change hapened it should've gone up but it went down, is it just that they've removed the bottom two levels and called it something new? knowing this would help me decide if doing a tribunal hearing would be worth it, if i'll be affected by the court ruling and why in general my benefit went down when it shouldve gone up?

thanks for taking the time to read this

sorry if it was a bit all over the place i forget what point i'm trying to make quickly so i have to get it out as i think it some sometimes digress and ramble

thanks guys

m

Marketdown1980

sorry guys forgot to mention the source from where i quoted who would get what on mobility PIP: (got the amounts slightly wrong)

"Government documents predicted the change would hand new money to 143,000 people who previously received nothing for mobility. Half would receive the enhanced rate of £57.45 a week, and the other half the standard rate of £21.80"

5) If the above is true and i used to be entitled to the lower rate of DLA which was £21.80 does that mean the 4 points i've scored will see the mobility component of PIP awarded now under the new criterea? does anyone know how they will implement who gets the lower and higher rates? how it will be scored? and what will it be called will they have to change the name and levels of PIP because if for example i am now eligible for the normal rate (the amount i was getting before) how will they word it that i'm awarded it under what level? and if they introduce a new level then it really is just almost the same as DLA and it seems after all this fuss the change will wind up costing them money

seems like madness, take away the "lower" rates, call the middle rates standard and the higher stays as such, change the overall name and hope no one notices it's the same benefit but with the two lowest levels missing?

PLYSU

I was reading it until I got to "my dad's friend got it". Then I stopped reading. Sorry.

WhenIam64

Some answers to your questions here

https://www.scope.org.uk/support/disabled-people/money/pip/faqs

With regards to the specific question on 28 days, the idea of 28 days is that it is a reasonable time to prepare a response. If you go over the 28 days then the burden is on you to explain why there was a delay and why they should consider an out-of-time request.

Perhaps the people that have been helping you, can help you with this.

Edit: The "scam" thing ...Governments can't scam as such. They may be guilty of maladministration or misdirecting themselves but tribunals and the courts are there to allow you to challenge within time limits.

poppy12345

It's not clear when you applied for PIP. You do actually have 13 months in which to apply BUT you have to have very good reasons why you didn't appeal within that first month. Seems like it was a lot longer than 13 months, of so then no you won't be able to appeal it now.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "band B" It would have been much easier to read if you had just stuck to the PIP story rather than the DLA part.

For PIP you can only score those points if that descriptor applies to you, for which you'll need evidence to prove it. People do score more than 2 points for each descriptor if it applies to them. I know of lots of people that have scored much more than that for each one.

For mobility are you claiming for Mental or physical health?

If the time is longer than 13 months then you can risk putting in a change of circumstances. By doing this they will send you more forms and you'll most likely have to have another assesssment. You do risk losing everything you already have. It could also increase or stay the same.

When is your review date? Reviews are done 1 year before the award is due to end. If it's soon then it won't be worth you reporting those changes, you may as well wait for the review, rather than risk losing what you already have sooner.

The recent changes apply to the "following and planning a journey" and are for those with Mental health. They won't apply to everyone.

Marketdown1980

PLYSU wrote: »

I was reading it until I got to "my dad's friend got it". Then I stopped reading. Sorry.

it's ok, don't be sorry

it was meant to say my friends dad if that helps but not sure why it's relevent, but i hadn't noticed i'd written it that way round

Marketdown1980

WhenIam64 wrote: »

Some answers to your questions here


With regards to the specific question on 28 days, the idea of 28 days is that it is a reasonable time to prepare a response. If you go over the 28 days then the burden is on you to explain why there was a delay and why they should consider an out-of-time request.

Perhaps the people that have been helping you, can help you with this.

Edit: The "scam" thing ...Governments can't scam as such. They may be guilty of maladministration or misdirecting themselves but tribunals and the courts are there to allow you to challenge within time limits.

yeah when i said "scam" i just meant take a liberty like, as you've referenced, with the unjust and unfair stuff they implement that the courts have to overturn

so when i say scam i mean i would've hoped the government wouldn't have needed the courts to bunk in and say guys this is really scummy towards disabled people, you can't do it.

i'll ask them, they were good with paperwork in general, it's been over 4 months now and the whole thing had just got me down, so i'm not sure i could justify the time i've taken in which to do it, if i were to now, as being reasonable

Marketdown1980

poppy12345 wrote: »

It's not clear when you applied for PIP. You do actually have 13 months in which to apply BUT you have to have very good reasons why you didn't appeal within that first month. Seems like it was a lot longer than 13 months, of so then no you won't be able to appeal it now.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "band B" It would have been much easier to read if you had just stuck to the PIP story rather than the DLA part.

For PIP you can only score those points if that descriptor applies to you, for which you'll need evidence to prove it. People do score more than 2 points for each descriptor if it applies to them. I know of lots of people that have scored much more than that for each one.

For mobility are you claiming for Mental or physical health?

If the time is longer than 13 months then you can risk putting in a change of circumstances. By doing this they will send you more forms and you'll most likely have to have another assesssment. You do risk losing everything you already have. It could also increase or stay the same.

When is your review date? Reviews are done 1 year before the award is due to end. If it's soon then it won't be worth you reporting those changes, you may as well wait for the review, rather than risk losing what you already have sooner.

The recent changes apply to the "following and planning a journey" and are for those with Mental health. They won't apply to everyone.

hi

thanks, like i said sometimes i lose my chain of thought a bit

i just wanted to distinguish in my head the differences between the two benefits, which as i said there dont seem to be any other than they've removed the bottom limits i think and called it something else

so now the court have ordered the change it just seemed pertinent as the amount of lower mobility DLA is the same as PIP standard rate so if more people are getting it after the ruling i was wondering how they'd classify it, and as well just wanted to give the backstory of how i think i was lucky in doing the forms properly in 2015 as i think i'd have got nothing under the new remit the assesors seemed to have of remove as many people as possible

i was on DLA for 6 years and in july last year i got a letter saying id have to have an assessment for PIP as the benefit was being changed from DLA but me DLA was good until january 2018, i told them this they said it was just part of the transference of benefits, i had the assesment in early october (maybe very late september)

the problems i've had are of a mental health nature, like i said i've never really gone out of my way to claim them, but i did get lower mobility under the DLA rules

"following and planning a journey" has always been a problem and has become a massive part of what's gone wrong with things foe me over the past two years, i wrote it in the original forms and in the appeal but the assesor and manager reviewing my case didnt really bring it up, i think thats why i'm wondering if they are not going to do any further assessments after this ruling as theyve stated i'm wondering if the threshold should be higher how will they deduce who is eligible without speaking to people

i got 4 points, it was good enough for the lower mobility component on DLA, if theyre not going to re-interview me then will they go on the DLA scale?

i have no idea about the band B part either, it was the first i'd heard of it, and the only reason i mention my friends dad was that he got it for completely the opposite reasons to me and when i looked at his letter he scored exactly 11 points as well and never got more than 2/8 on any part, so i just saw a pattern emerging

it sounds like from what you're saying doing the whole trubunal thing now wont happen and i'd have to do my claim all over again which i dont want to do

i was just more angry about the scores they gave me on individual things which were farcical, and also if i'd be one of the people affected by the recent court decision as i claim this benefit for severe mental health problems, i used to get lower mobility rate, planning and following a journey is something i have always had a great deal of trouble with but as i said my benefit on the whole shouldve gone up in the past two years if i'd kept them informed monthy or something, instead it's gone down so i wanted to know as nearly everywhere ive read seems to say the mental health mobility component that theyre not giving people the right amount for will only be changed for people that should be getting the higher rate and got stiffed by the DWP, not many articles ive read mention the ruling affecting people getting the standard rate as a result of it

you've cleared up for me what to do in terms of going to a trubuneral though, thanks

Marketdown1980

WhenIam64 wrote: »

Some answers to your questions here

With regards to the specific question on 28 days, the idea of 28 days is that it is a reasonable time to prepare a response. If you go over the 28 days then the burden is on you to explain why there was a delay and why they should consider an out-of-time request.

Perhaps the people that have been helping you, can help you with this.

Edit: The "scam" thing ...Governments can't scam as such. They may be guilty of maladministration or misdirecting themselves but tribunals and the courts are there to allow you to challenge within time limits.

thanks for the link (i had to edit it out of my reply new members cant post links it says)

but on it i took the pip scoring test

i scored 18 for care and 8 for mobility,

so higher care and standard mobility

but at my assessment i got 11 points care, and 4 points mobility

i'm sure they introduced PIP just to save money and i'm one of those casualties, my money should've gone up, instead i get basic care and no mobility even their own online PIP scoring system says so

like i said after all the aggro with the appeal, them losing the paperwork etc, i just didn't have it in me to go to court for what was only going to bit 20-30 extra a week, i'd stopped caring about the money by then but i hated and was so angry how they summarized what i could and couldnt do, it was nothing liken what ive been going through the past 7 years, especially the last couple, nothing like what was in letters from specialists, nothing like what i wrote in 3 seperate forms over that time plus an appeal, just the womans opinion in the interview, it's a joke

pmlindyloo

From what you have written you still have time to put in a late appeal as it is less than 13 months.

PIP and DLA are two completely different benefits and, to be honest, there is no point in comparing the two.

I am always wary about recommending people take the PIP self test as it really doesn't go into much detail and can, in some cases give a false impression of what you may be eligible for.

You can read the assessment guide for PIP here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers

This goes into a lot more detail.

After reading this if you still think you score more points for the mobility part then go ahead with the appeal. Have you got solid medical evidence about your mobility problems?

And do remember that they will look at the whole award again, not just the mobility part.

It is also worthwhile speaking to a benefits specialist who can go through your disabilities, paperwork and assess your chances of getting the decision overturned before you put in the late appeal.

poppy12345

Marketdown1980 wrote: »

hi

thanks, like i said sometimes i lose my chain of thought a bit

i just wanted to distinguish in my head the differences between the two benefits, which as i said there dont seem to be any other than they've removed the bottom limits i think and called it something else

so now the court have ordered the change it just seemed pertinent as the amount of lower mobility DLA is the same as PIP standard rate so if more people are getting it after the ruling i was wondering how they'd classify it, and as well just wanted to give the backstory of how i think i was lucky in doing the forms properly in 2015 as i think i'd have got nothing under the new remit the assesors seemed to have of remove as many people as possible

i was on DLA for 6 years and in july last year i got a letter saying id have to have an assessment for PIP as the benefit was being changed from DLA but me DLA was good until january 2018, i told them this they said it was just part of the transference of benefits, i had the assesment in early october (maybe very late september)

the problems i've had are of a mental health nature, like i said i've never really gone out of my way to claim them, but i did get lower mobility under the DLA rules

"following and planning a journey" has always been a problem and has become a massive part of what's gone wrong with things foe me over the past two years, i wrote it in the original forms and in the appeal but the assesor and manager reviewing my case didnt really bring it up, i think thats why i'm wondering if they are not going to do any further assessments after this ruling as theyve stated i'm wondering if the threshold should be higher how will they deduce who is eligible without speaking to people

i got 4 points, it was good enough for the lower mobility component on DLA, if theyre not going to re-interview me then will they go on the DLA scale?

i have no idea about the band B part either, it was the first i'd heard of it, and the only reason i mention my friends dad was that he got it for completely the opposite reasons to me and when i looked at his letter he scored exactly 11 points as well and never got more than 2/8 on any part, so i just saw a pattern emerging

it sounds like from what you're saying doing the whole trubunal thing now wont happen and i'd have to do my claim all over again which i dont want to do

i was just more angry about the scores they gave me on individual things which were farcical, and also if i'd be one of the people affected by the recent court decision as i claim this benefit for severe mental health problems, i used to get lower mobility rate, planning and following a journey is something i have always had a great deal of trouble with but as i said my benefit on the whole shouldve gone up in the past two years if i'd kept them informed monthy or something, instead it's gone down so i wanted to know as nearly everywhere ive read seems to say the mental health mobility component that theyre not giving people the right amount for will only be changed for people that should be getting the higher rate and got stiffed by the DWP, not many articles ive read mention the ruling affecting people getting the standard rate as a result of it

you've cleared up for me what to do in terms of going to a trubuneral though, thanks

You keep talking about DLA but that doesn't exist anymore. It's now PIP and they're different benefits so my advice first is to stop comparing them.

If you have good evidence to back up those extra points then there's no reason why you shouldn't take it too Tribunal, as i said in my previous post you have 13 months.

The PIP self test is just a guide, it doesn't mean that's what you'll score. Scoring those points depends on what evidence, if any you sent with the claim. Never rely on them contacting anyone for this because it's rare if they do.

You say following and planning a journey is your problem. When you go out, do you go alone or does someone go with you?