Grave ownership question

CA2612

Hello
I really hope someone can help me..

my nan and her husband brought a burial plot and paid for their funerals in advamce.
My nan passed away and was buried thwre and her husbamd brought a double headstone which he had put on.

He died years later and was buried in the same plot and all ok. The headstone was removed (apparantly this is normal and can be put back on at a cost when the ground settles).

My mum and aunties want the headstone put back on as it has their mums details on whereas my nans husbands family dont seem interested in having his details added on... unfortunately my mum and co cant do this as ownership of the grave has been passed to the husbands sister!

my questions:

how come ownership went to her? he had no will and does have children

is there anyway (other than transferring ownership somehow as sister doesnt seem keen) that they can have a headstone put on for their mum??

Thanks in advance for any help / advice.

CA2612

sorry for all the mistakes.. i cant type on this phone!!

SevenOfNine

Assume this is located in a local authority cemetery? Ordinarily you purchase the burial rights (usually for a certain number of years, which can be extended on payment of further fees), not actual ownership of the grave.

Contact the council where the grave is & ask how the rights were transferred to his sister. This would have happened BEFORE nan's husband was put in as he can't give permission for the grave (burial or cremation plot) to be 'opened' for him to join nan - because he's dead!

It's not a difficult task to transfer ownership, but it does involve a fee (of course, because every tiny thing when you're dealing with bereavement & the local authority involves a blinking fee).

Best bet is to make absolutely sure the sister who currently holds the rights did not obtain them by being less than truthful at any time, that she actually had what was necessary to make the change.

Did she actually have the original burial rights deed? Did she have the Probate Grant or LoA (she could have transferred the rights using either of those). Who inherited his estate because ownership of the burial rights should have transferred to them (as part of his property/estate).

Stick "transfer of burial rights" & county/city the grave is into google, it should find their local 'rules' regarding this.

It's possible his sons/daughters (assuming adults) may be able to step in & transfer the rights to themselves, but TBH it doesn't sound like they're bothered either, sadly.

SteveJW

Not sure if it applys everywhere, but here in the East Riding of Yorkshire you are allowed at least two names on a certificate of burial rights. If I remember correctly the fee to transfer was £75 and both of us has to sign in front of a solicitor £5 each

Gers

My father bought a lair in the early 70s for his first grandchild who died after four days.

When my father died in the late 90s I inherited ownership of the lair, proven by the will and his death certificate and so paid a small fee to receive a new certificate. I now own the lair outright rather than burial rights.

Perhaps the sister was the beneficiary of his estate which will have included the grave. (Lair is the Scots term for grave).

TBagpuss

Possibly he put it in his own and his sister's name when he bought it? Maybe at the time he was thinking about their parents, or perhaps thought his sister would deal with arranging both funerals.

You mention that your aunt doesn't want to transfer ownership of the plot, but would she object to the stone being replaced if the other members of the family would be willing to cover the cost? That might be a way forward.

It might also be possible for her to add a second person, such as you or one of your other relations, to the ownership, so that you can arrange for the stone to be replaced, without her having to give up ownership.

Shelldean

Grave ownership is a minefield I found.
OH Nan and grandad brought a double plot and put the plot in their son's name. Sensible idea!!!
Grandad died back in the 70's. And Nan died in 2014. However the son died in 2005!!! So therefore couldn't give permission for the grave to be opened.
OH who was dealing with his Nan's estate asked to open it But to open the grave it had to be in his name.
To get it into his name, his mum had to sign a declaration stating she didn't want ownership as the surviving spouse of the owner. Then his two sisters also had to sign and say they didn't want to claim it.
Then and only then it was passed to OH, upon payment of a fee.

So it seems weird that the deceased sister was given the rights, unless she was the person who dealt with the funeral. But if no will (as in our case) then those who have a right to inherit it have to nominate one person and all others renounce their claim. Which is what we did.


I am presuming that as you state Nan and her husband he's not your grandfather? Therefore the rights have gone to his nearest blood relative??
As you mum and aunties would only be his stepdaughters???

janektoday

I have a similar problem. I arranged mums funeral with her husbands agreement. i signed for burial plot in my name as next of kin as it was agreed that I would arrange mums headstone as she had been placed close to her late son and her husband said we could. The purchase for the plot was within the funeral cost as a whole which was paid for from my mums estate. She died intestate. Her husband now wishes to claim the deed to the plot but it is in my name and he said thats not right. He now doesn't want her to have a famly headstone but just one from. can he claim the deed back

SevenOfNine

janektoday wrote: »

I have a similar problem. I arranged mums funeral with her husbands agreement. i signed for burial plot in my name as next of kin as it was agreed that I would arrange mums headstone as she had been placed close to her late son and her husband said we could. The purchase for the plot was within the funeral cost as a whole which was paid for from my mums estate. She died intestate. Her husband now wishes to claim the deed to the plot but it is in my name and he said thats not right. He now doesn't want her to have a famly headstone but just one from. can he claim the deed back

I suggest you read all of the responses to the initial post. It sounds as if your stepfather thinks he might like to be buried there with your mother (can't see any other reason why he wants to own the burial rights to the plot now).

If that's the case it isn't going to happen even if you transferred ownership to him, & I have explained why already. So think on before you agree because on his death ownership is likely to be transferred to one of HIS inheritors (so that HE can be buried there with your mother).

The only place you can get the definitive answer will by the Local Authority for wherever the grave is located. You can discuss with them how/why it is in your name, presume you must have had one of the required documents? It's highly unlikely that stepdad can change ownership without your permission now.

Explain this to him & perhaps if your relationship is good, reassure him you WILL, as 'rights' owner, put him there with your mother & amend the headstone accordingly. If no decent relationship simply refuse!

We own the rights to my in-laws grave (purchased from their estate funds), but it is ONLY in my husbands name. His brother thinks he's going in there as well one day, too stupid to realise he isn't & can't because his name isn't on the 'rights' certificate (we have good reason to be spiteful).

If my husband 'goes' before me, the rights will pass to me & only I will be able to agree a transfer to him instead of me. No chance!

Margot123

I accidentally became the 'owner' of a grave.

My Mother passed away, and then last year my Dad passed. I was the person who arranged, and paid for, the funeral. As it was a double-grave, I had to sign a Council document to allow for it to be reopened.

In my grief, I didn't realise that in amongst the masses of wording, I was signing a sort of contract and accepting responsibility for the grave and anything connected to it. In other words, I arranged the burial, and 'ownership' was transferred to me without me realising.

Perhaps this is what happens on many occasions.