Forgotten about Direct Debit

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Hi all, first time post here.

I've recently gone through all my direct debits and standing orders for my First Direct bank account(s) and found one from Haymarket Publishing for £9.55 that comes out every two months. I didn't recognise the reference and haven't received any magazines of any kind for years so called them up.

After much searching, they found me from an address that I left in July 2005 and said it was for Four Four Two magazine which I do remember I subscribed to for a while at my previous address. It seems that I have been paying £9.55 every two months for over 12 years. Obvious a massive oversight on my part and one that has cost me around £700. :wall:

It's all a bit hazy, but I thought that I had posted back a "to cancel, fill in this form" plastic cover way back in 2005 but I obviously didn't cancel my direct debit and since then it's just slipped my mind. I haven't received any magazines in that time - they would have all been posted back to Haymarket as I have no forwarding service any more from that address - do I have any grounds for a refund of any of these payments?

I have now cancelled that DD. Stable door is closed, horse many miles away.

My initial email follow up contact with Haymarket has been replied to, offering me a month's refund as a gesture of goodwill but advising me to raise a "direct debit indemnity claim" with my bank.

Thanks for your time, any advice would be appreciated.

telemarks

If you had

had posted back a "to cancel, fill in this form" plastic cover way back in 2005

and Haymarket failed to act on this then you have a claim for refund and interest. After all you have no way of knowing they have even been sending the magazine for 12 years.

Reply to make your case and say you are happy to go to small claims court if you don't get satisfaction. So if they offer more "goodwill".

Good luck!

BooJewels

Obviously there will be people along who know a lot more about this than me, but my understanding of a DD is that the recipient requests the money and your bank checks that you have a DD authority in place for it and says 'ok, here you go' and pays it.

So if they weren't sending out mags to you (assuming they acted on your cancellation), they'd no business requesting the money either, so they must take some responsibility for that I'd think. If you have a DD authority in place, then the bank would probably just keep blindly sending any money requested under the terms of it, so I don't think they're culpable - I think the DD guarantee only covers payments made in error - which if you didn't cancel the DD maybe doesn't apply - that particular error is yours really.

I certainly don't think their one month refund is much of a gesture of anything and I'd certainly put a case for a lot more. After all, they've had money for a product they didn't supply. Although, is it possible that the mags were sent out over this time and simply kept by whoever moved in to your old address?

shortcrust

telemarks wrote: »

If you had



and Haymarket failed to act on this then you have a claim for refund and interest. After all you have no way of knowing they have even been sending the magazine for 12 years.

Reply to make your case and say you are happy to go to small claims court if you don't get satisfaction. So if they offer more "goodwill".

Good luck!

I'm not convinced that would worry them in the slightest! And saying that effectively ends course of the complaint with them. They'll say fine go ahead, and I can't imagine there's any chance of such a claim being successful.

I would always write rather than email but it's a tricky one as you don't seem certain that you tried to cancel. If you're honest with them about that then you can't reasonably ask them to refund the money.

The magazines might not have been returned. I get loads of post for previous residents and it all goes in the bin.

dunstonh

My initial email follow up contact with Haymarket has been replied to, offering me a month's refund as a gesture of goodwill but advising me to raise a "direct debit indemnity claim" with my bank.

That doesnt make any sense.

The indemnity scheme is for when payments are taken incorrectly. The bank will go to Haymarket and tell them you have made a claim on the DD scheme. They will give Haymarket a chance to say whether the payments were correct or not. Clearly the payments are correct and the DD claim should be rejected (not saying it will be as logic and outcome are often different).

However, the bit that doesnt make sense is why would Haymarket tell you to use the scheme when it is their decision to refund you or not directly or via the scheme. There is no logic in offering you one month back directly and more back via the indemnity scheme.

Reply to make your case and say you are happy to go to small claims court if you don't get satisfaction.

Problem with that is that firm has done nothing wrong. It had an instruction from the OP and a valid method of payment and it has supplied the magazine as intended. The error is with the OP. There is no record on the bank account that the direct debit was cancelled. That is going to be a tough one to overcome.

This just reminds us why people should always do mail redirects when they move. You get to see what mail continues to go to the old address and can make sure those people you want to be told the new address are told. It also reminds us why you check your statements each month. How many other transactions have been missed over the years. I have had bank refunded transactions in 3 of the last 5 years that did not belong to me. Easily missed if I didnt check my statements.

BooJewels

dunstonh wrote: »

This just reminds us why people should always do mail redirects when they move.

The OP said "as I have no forwarding service any more from that address" - which I read as he had done forwarding for a suitable length of time - but as this is going back 12 years, presumably any forwarding has long since expired. I suppose it depends on the frequency of the publication and length of his forwarding as to whether extra mags still arriving would be evident.

Easily missed if I didnt check my statements.

I suppose this depends on how flush you are as to how often you check. I live hand to mouth, so a DD going out that had gone up a couple of quid would trip me up, so I balance to the penny every week. I would be delighted to be flush enough not to miss £700!

tempus_fugit

BooJewels wrote: »

The OP said "as I have no forwarding service any more from that address" - which I read as he had done forwarding for a suitable length of time - but as this is going back 12 years, presumably any forwarding has long since expired. I suppose it depends on the frequency of the publication and length of his forwarding as to whether extra mags still arriving would be evident.


I suppose this depends on how flush you are as to how often you check. I live hand to mouth, so a DD going out that had gone up a couple of quid would trip me up, so I balance to the penny every week. I would be delighted to be flush enough not to miss £700!

It doesn't really matter if the OP still has mail redirect now or not, no-pne is going to keep that for 12 years. What should have happened though is that mail redirect had been done for a reasonable time (12 months is the recommended minimum) they would have seen the mag's coming in via the mail redirection and that would have alerted them to contact the publishers at that time to change the address. This obviously never happened, for one reason or another.

shortcrust

For info I think you can only have a maximum of two years post redirection.

BooJewels

tempus_fugit wrote: »

It doesn't really matter if the OP still has mail redirect now or not

That was rather my point, they clearly don't still have it, but the OP hinted that they did have at least some redirection at the time.

If the redirection was 3 months and a quarterly publication, it's possible that it was missed. But a monthly periodical with a 6 month re-direction would not have been. So thinking in terms of sensible time frames, it seems unlikely that any mags were actually sent after his cancellation.

So, as I see it, if the publishers did act on his cancellation and didn't send out the mags, but did keep asking for funds, then they're at fault and owe him a full refund. If the mags were still sent out and were either returned, binned or kept by the new resident in his old home, then he might just have to suck it up.

YorkshireBoy

BooJewels wrote: »

I suppose it depends on the frequency of the publication

If the redirection was 3 months and a quarterly publication

it seems unlikely that any mags were actually sent after his cancellation.

OP has stated it was a 2 monthly publication, so if it was the same minimum 3 month redirect back then - and PO complied with it(!) - OP would have had at least one magazine delivered to their new address.


Just a thought...did the DD guarantee back then ask you to "please also contact your bank"? I think it may not have, so that may be an angle to approach from.

BooJewels

YorkshireBoy wrote: »

OP has stated it was a 2 monthly publication,

Thanks, I missed that - I saw that it was paid every 2 months, but missed the early comment on the frequency of the mag itself - apologies.

As you say, a 3 month re-direct would have forwarded at least one publication, to act as a reminder to the OP. So that probably helps his case for a refund.