Off grid living

getmore4less

AG47 wrote: »

If you buy several hectares then you can easily build a place far enough away from the beaten track, and camo roof or earth sheltered so invisible from air

Technology has moved on.

It will be almost impossible to hide change if someone is looking for it.

The world is fully mapped at multiple wavelengths whatever you do will change something in the images.

even moving into cave will leave a trace if you want a life outside the cave.

They are detecting stuff that has been abandoned for 100/1000s of years I don't think a hut in the woods will be too hard.


Think google maps and street view for grownups.

Davesnave

The only way to 'hide' is to do it in plain sight, perhaps by buying a piece of rough land/ woodland and working in it for a while from a temporary structure, much like Mr Ironthumper did.

Of course, neighbouring landowners will soon know you're there, but if you don't cause noise, make a mess etc, then they'll eventually decide you represent no threat. It helps if you have a legitimate reason for being there, like making charcoal or keeping bees, rather than just lurking. It would be a gradual process; you wouldn't move in immediately.

The local authority may only become interested in your activities if someone reports you. In my village, the parish council occasionally discusses concerns over land use, but much goes on under their radar.

For example, our property used to have a 30' garden, but about 20 years ago, someone expanded it with orchard trees and fruit bushes. Later, we came along and expanded it a bit more, re-defining field boundaries, so now it covers, along with the front garden, about an acre. No one has questioned this, despite government agency mapping recording it all very accurately.

The previous owner also plonked a caravan behind the barn, out of sight, connected it to that building's electricity, water and drainage, then let one of their adult children and partner live in it independently. We have a different caravan there now, only used within the bounds of the 28 day rule, but nobody monitors that. For all anyone can tell, friends or relatives could be living there, because it's pretty much invisible, except from the air.

Yes, surveillance has improved, but with the huge increase in data comes the business of acting on it, which must be prioritised.

The mud hut couple hid in plain sight, but they did it in such a conspicuous way that anyone travelling along the A377 or the Tarka railway could see them for 6 months of the year, and that wasn't very clever.

Davesnave

AG47 wrote: »

What I would like to know is if somebody builds an off grid house on their land and keeps it hidden but not like the hay bales Tudor castle, but keeps it secret but qualifying for the 4 year rule, then after 4 years they get found out about, can they then apply retrospectively?

Should they apply for lawful development straight away on the 4 year anniversary which would mean they then have to start paying council tax?

Or should they wait as long as they can living there until somebody questions them and then apply for lawful development saying they have lived here for more than the 4 years?

I've answered this already, but there's a moral perspective too.

Without paying council tax, people leech on the local community. For example, at a very basic level, without the police and the rule of law, there would be nothing to prevent others from taking your land and home away from you, simple as that.

AG47

EachPenny wrote: »

How would you keep it hidden, but not like the hay bales example?

Keeping it hidden implies concealment.

Camo roof or cover with earth or brambles

AG47

Earth bearmed is covered with earth, this is brilliant insulation

Then you need a pile of earth or bund all the way around with a gap to walk around inside the bund

This is good insulation from the wind but also to keep it hidden fo four years

AG47

There is a housing crisis in this country, you'd think the government would be grateful for anybody increasing the supply of housing, as they seem to be struggling to keep up with their promises of how much housing they can ad to supply every year

martindow

Even if you tried to conceal a building under a turf roof so it couldn't be seen from the air you will still need deliveries of building materials. It is 100% certain that people will notice someone new arriving in the neighbourhood, deliveries or where vehicles have driven in and out. Anyone building like this will take the risk of someone phoning the planning department followed by enforcement.

If you don't annoy the neighbours you may get away with it but you will be living with uncertainty.

Davesnave

AG47 wrote: »

There is a housing crisis in this country, you'd think the government would be grateful for anybody increasing the supply of housing, as they seem to be struggling to keep up with their promises of how much housing they can ad to supply every year

Very few people would be grateful for a relaxation of the rules which attempt to ensure the basic integrity of new housing and some control over its placement.

Again, I refer you to the video you posted originally, where the person who made it suggests a free-for-all doesn't result in a great environmental result.

Yes, there's a housing crisis, but it's not one most people would wish to be solved by people living in sheds and shanty towns.

DaftyDuck

Thing is, you might just get away with it... you might...

But, you'd only manage it in a part of the country that others have chosen not to live in, you'd be unlikely to have any services whatsoever (I know, you're a hard, off-gridding man.. hmmmm ... try running a farm first...), and likely never get them. You are unlikely to get even permitted development rights once you have "legalised" it, and all you are really doing is sponging off the main, hard-working population... to whom you haven't endeared yourself in the meantime... and they'll dob you in (or charge you double in the local shop/services/pub for eternity)!

AG47

DaftyDuck wrote: »

Thing is, you might just get away with it... you might...

But, you'd only manage it in a part of the country that others have chosen not to live in, you'd be unlikely to have any services whatsoever (I know, you're a hard, off-gridding man.. hmmmm ... try running a farm first...), and likely never get them. You are unlikely to get even permitted development rights once you have "legalised" it, and all you are really doing is sponging off the main, hard-working population... to whom you haven't endeared yourself in the meantime... and they'll dob you in (or charge you double in the local shop/services/pub for eternity)!

Off grid is easy from the point of view of water and electricity

Photovoltaic panels are cheaper and more efficient than ever before

Battery banks are better and cheaper every year

Rain falls from the sky for free and you have to do it collect it