Pension and divorce

mgdavid

enthusiasticsaver wrote: »

.......
As he was the one who instigated this my sister feels that she would rather wait a while and does not see why she should cooperate.

.......

being stroppy and vindictive often leads to 'as you sow, so shall you reap'. Just saying.....

enthusiasticsaver

Tom99 wrote: »

Do they have a decree nisi or absolute yet?

She has neither. Nothing has been done since they separated. He said there was no rush

enthusiasticsaver

mgdavid wrote: »

being stroppy and vindictive often leads to 'as you sow, so shall you reap'. Just saying.....

She is being neither stroppy nor vindictive although obviously she is unhappy and hurt. Wouldn't you be if your partner walked away without a backward glance after 29 years?

There has been no rush to do anything by him for the last 2 years since he moved out. Is there any reason why she would help him rush the process now? They have hardly had any contact over that period. That is not being vindictive just cautious.

Dansmam

The best outcome all round will be if they can keep everything amicable (you can help by letting your sister sound off to you and your Mum so she doesn't have to vent at ex - or, god forbid, the children). But she needs good legal advice from a solicitor-mediator. Getting advice is not the same as 'going to court' it just means she will understand what she should reasonably expect so she can - amicably- stand her ground.
She, ex and adult children all have a lifetime to negotiate and if they can get through this without anyone feeling vengeful the rest of everybody's lives will be as good as they can be.
Seen some horrible divorces among friends where they go to war and forget they will always be a family - just not the together family I'm sure both parents originally thought they would be.
No need for courts or judges if they can agree but your sister really really needs to have legal advice so she doesn't do what a lot of women do and overlook the pension she'll need to live what I hope will be a long and happy life after divorce. Women in distress can give up a lot of financial power at the times they most need to keep chilled and negotiate fairly. Wishing her all the best. She can do this x

Tom99

enthusiasticsaver wrote: »

She has neither. Nothing has been done since they separated. He said there was no rush

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]They can't apply for a financial consent order without 1st having a decree nisi. Given the assets the parties have between them it would be a very bad idea to agree to a certain financial split without a court issued consent order.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]https://www.gov.uk/money-property-when-relationship-ends/apply-for-consent-order[/FONT]

justme111

Beware of goin via solicitors - it's al good sounding to know one's options etc. Im practice it means more often than not a protracted legal battle leving everybody poorer bitter and twisted.
I noticed you said he wants to move out of London hence he can not house children - I am sure if he had an option to stay in the marital home with children he woild have happily stayed.
P.S. It is not possible to provide for children the same as if they stil lived as one household because if the same money has to be divided between two househods both of them will be poorer unless one of thrm becomes far poorer by taking sll the hit. It is unbelievable that on this site people don't understand it.
You say you are neutral and just a sounding board for your sister but then in the next line you say that she should be entitled to more because he is keen to move on , because of who brought what into pot ( somehow she has more rights because her mother put a lot of money into the house but him earning more and presumably contributing more in monetary terms does not make him having more rights; if anything it makes him having less because he owes oart of pension (, because it is his idea to separate and bcause he was not a great husband.
I am sure they both are literate enough to estmate differences in pensions without actuary reports accountimg to the last pound and costing £15OO each. I am sure they can compare the difference in pension to the difference in equity and see whether it is comparable or not.

enthusiasticsaver

Dansmam wrote: »

The best outcome all round will be if they can keep everything amicable (you can help by letting your sister sound off to you and your Mum so she doesn't have to vent at ex - or, god forbid, the children). But she needs good legal advice from a solicitor-mediator. Getting advice is not the same as 'going to court' it just means she will understand what she should reasonably expect so she can - amicably- stand her ground.
She, ex and adult children all have a lifetime to negotiate and if they can get through this without anyone feeling vengeful the rest of everybody's lives will be as good as they can be.
Seen some horrible divorces among friends where they go to war and forget they will always be a family - just not the together family I'm sure both parents originally thought they would be.
No need for courts or judges if they can agree but your sister really really needs to have legal advice so she doesn't do what a lot of women do and overlook the pension she'll need to live what I hope will be a long and happy life after divorce. Women in distress can give up a lot of financial power at the times they most need to keep chilled and negotiate fairly. Wishing her all the best. She can do this x

They are trying to keep it amicable but the children are adults and naturally see certain things. My nephew for example saw my brother in law belittle my sister as he is fairly informed about legal things and finances and politics etc and she is not interested in that. I think he has destroyed her confidence although she has coped ok since the separation. My nephew is quite angry for that reason and he was living with my sister when my brother in law left so saw the misery he caused her. My niece has stayed neutral as she was close to her dad. She was also away at uni when he left and my sister did not want to worry her so kept a lot of her depression hidden from her.

My sister has so far resisted legal advice as she thinks it will anger her ex. I think it is essential as all the info she is getting is via him. I have tried not to get involved and just listen but now things seem to be progressing further I think I have to say something. I am staying with her next weekend so will broach it then if the subject comes up. She needs more information I think from him and then should seek legal advice. I don't think he can object to that.

Thank you for your very helpful advice

enthusiasticsaver

Tom99 wrote: »

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]They can't apply for a financial consent order without 1st having a decree nisi. Given the assets the parties have between them it would be a very bad idea to agree to a certain financial split without a court issued consent order.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]https://www.gov.uk/money-property-when-relationship-ends/apply-for-consent-order[/FONT]

Thanks for that link. I glanced through the gov.uk site yesterday and I think that is where my brother in law has got his information from. It is just 2 years since they separated so I see that is one of the grounds for divorce so I presume a decree nisi is the first step. I will direct my sister to there if she hasn't already read it.

Yes I think you are right about they should get Court approved consent order. I was ignorant about divorce before this so this site is brilliant to come to.

Dansmam

Two further thoughts while I was walking the dog -
1. some devastated men can also concede too much - before the decent folk on here feel the need to point that out - and they are good and caring people, but the financial advantage is more often on the male foot here in 21st century Britain.
2. needs a court order to secure what is agreed but that doesn't mean hearing or judges - paper exercise if it's mutually agreed. Need recommendations for a lawyer who genuinely mediates. Doesn't have to be a re run of Kramer v Kramer
Good luck x

enthusiasticsaver

justme111 wrote: »

Beware of goin via solicitors - it's al good sounding to know one's options etc. Im practice it means more often than not a protracted legal battle leving everybody poorer bitter and twisted.

i don't think being informed of all the facts and taking advice from someone who knows the law necessarily means a protracted legal battle. How can she decide if his offer is fair without knowing all the facts?
I noticed you said he wants to move out of London hence he can not house children - I am sure if he had an option to stay in the marital home with children he woild have happily stayed.

He chose to leave.
P.S. It is not possible to provide for children the same as if they stil lived as one household because if the same money has to be divided between two househods both of them will be poorer unless one of thrm becomes far poorer by taking sll the hit. It is unbelievable that on this site people don't understand it.
yes my sister recognises that. She says his decision to leave has crippled them both financially and they have more assets than most. London is not cheap to live in though anyway.
You say you are neutral and just a sounding board for your sister but then in the next line you say that she should be entitled to more because he is keen to move on , because of who brought what into pot ( somehow she has more rights because her mother put a lot of money into the house but him earning more and presumably contributing more in monetary terms does not make him having more rights; if anything it makes him having less because he owes oart of pension (, because it is his idea to separate and bcause he was not a great husband.

I am voicing an opinion but I fully accept I am ignorant of the law regarding divorce but gradually learning more.i do believe that financially my sister with the help of my mum put more into the house than him. Mum gave them a lump sum to help with the deposit. He put in nothing. With a family gift and inheritance my sister extended the property twice and paid off the mortgage. He had a high salary over the years but it didn't go to the mortgage as they never increased it at any time so it was relatively low. It is all documented and she has made a list of what she put in. That is fact and he acknowledges that and has said that is one reason why he is happy to take a lower proportion of the value. His pension is his but after 29 years it is taken as being half hers. How the assets are eventually split will need to be decided but at the moment she does not know the worth of his pension. I will encourage her to find that out
I am sure they both are literate enough to estmate differences in pensions without actuary reports accountimg to the last pound and costing £15OO each. I am sure they can compare the difference in pension to the difference in equity and see whether it is comparable or not.

I disagree. She needs the figures in writing, not via my brother in law. Just to confirm. I am not neutral but am trying to suggest to my sister she keeps things as pleasant as possible for her sake and my niece and nephew. I don't care about my brother in law as he caused all this upset.