CEL & Court - Simple Ask with all the detail

Coupon-mad

With whoever was driving exceeding the time limit (according to ANPR), the only stance I have I guess is that we cant recall who was driving.
It it does get to Small Claims Court, it may be that they come at me with a 'if i had paid the PCN at the time, we would have known who was driving' .

No they won't, there will be no hearing. Easy one to win and see off; they will discontinue.

You need to read all the other CEL threads where we've helped people defend on the basis that there is no evidence of the driver!

Search the forum for:

CEL discontinued

or

CEL discontinuance

...and relax! We dealt with dozens, if not over 100 last year. NOT A SINGLE ONE CONTINUED.

You should reply to the LBC though, but no filling in the nosey income stuff, that's for people who admit the 'debt' - and that is not you. Your defence will be the same as all the other CEL ones!

Hop24

Thanks again folks - appreciated.
I will take and use the advice.

Hop24

Letter and claim form from the County Court Business Centre received.
If i'm honest and with all the info I have read about CEL, i didnt expect it to go this far.
Not wanting a CCJ to be attached to the registetred keeper, its getting more likely that we have to pay.
Rang POPLA and they cant offer advice other than open a new claim or not.
Should we ring CEL and offer to make a payment (not in full) just to get this over and done with.
Interstingly, NOT ONE of all the letters sent (from CEL and solicitors) were signed - Maybe this helps th case however I have seen all the 'templates' on here where people have quoted beavis cases and legal statements but do these really work ?
After reading them, i still dont know what to include and what not ?
* In the defence box on the reply form, would a simple statement saying we dont know who the driver is suffice ?
* Do we just reply and offer to pay the original amount, contesting the basis of the charges and overcharges over and above the original

Loadsofchildren123

This is the bog standard bully tactics. Hold firm and don't give up (I'm picturing Russell Crowe on his horse at the start of Gladiator yelling "Hold the line!").


Other PPCs proceed all the way, even with cases that are well defended and which they'd know (if they used their 3 brain cells) they are going to lose. They don't care about this because they make so much money they don't even read the defences or evidence, they just send it all out to some poor junior lawyer who then has to try and argue it in court. The ones they lose are just loss leaders, because many more are undefended or badly defended.


However, CEL is different.


CEL's model is to proceed to the final hurdle and then, if it is being robustly defended, they pull out (thus saving themselves the cost of attending a hearing and the risk of losing - even if they win, they don't cover the costs of attending the hearing because in small claims you don't get costs unless the other party is guilty of unreasonable behaviour, which is very rare).


So CEL issuing proceedings is entirely normal. It's only cost them an issue fee of £25. The normal stage for them to discontinue is when they have to pay the hearing fee: this is not until after you've done your Defence, the matter's been allocated to the small claims track and been transferred to your daughter's local court, and you've done and submitted all your witness and documentary evidence. So you've got quite a way to go yet.


As others have said, defending robustly does take time and effort educating yourself about the various defences, the relevant legislation, and drafting your documents. You have to be ready for that and prepared to do it.

Loadsofchildren123

Hop24 wrote: »

Should we ring CEL and offer to make a payment (not in full) just to get this over and done with. No. Do not show any weakness at this stage.
Interstingly, NOT ONE of all the letters sent (from CEL and solicitors) were signed - Maybe this helps th case however I have seen all the 'templates' on here where people have quoted beavis cases and legal statements but do these really work ?
After reading them, i still dont know what to include and what not ? Irrelevant
* In the defence box on the reply form, would a simple statement saying we dont know who the driver is suffice ? No. Read the newbies thread. You just acknowledge and say youre defending, not what your defence will be.
* Do we just reply and offer to pay the original amount, contesting the basis of the charges and overcharges over and above the original No - see above - now is not the time to show weakness

You do not get off these charges by saying you don't know who was driving.
The Protection of Freedoms Act was brought in to make keepers liable if the driver can't be identified. POFA has conditions which the PPC must meet in order to make the keeper liable instead. Eg they have to send out a notice to the keeper within a strict time scale (there are two timescales: one that applies to APNR car parks where there are no windscreen tickets, and another that applies to car parks where windscreen tickets are issued).
So to get off as RK your daughter would need to deny being the driver/put CEL to full proof of who was driving AND show that POFA had not been complied with.


The regulars on here give up a lot of their free (and not so free) time to help. We do that because we want to do it. But what we expect in return is posters who are prepared to do the legwork and educate themselves by reading into the law and procedure (set out in the newbies threads), to read other threads so they gain an understanding of how real cases pan out on the ground, and to make an effort to draft their own documents which regulars will then help with. You just won't get anyone to do it all for you. Sometimes we can be a bit crabby and get a bit shirty (eg when someone asks questions that have already been clearly answered in the newbies thread - eg your question "shall I just put she wasn't driving in the defence box"), so dig your tin hat out.

Hop24

Ok, got it and thanks very much for your very detailed response - it is appreciated and i do recognise the time and effort folks go into on this forum.
Defense it is then - Assume i just tick option 1 (attached claim form copy) and dont enter any detail, sign and date.?

https : //ibb.co/h0zeuc
https : //ibb.co/gN5V0H

KeithP

Hop24 wrote: »

Defense it is then -

No it isn't - Defence it is.

Hop24 wrote: »

Assume i just tick option 1 (attached claim form copy) and dont enter any detail, sign and date.?

Please don't do that.

Rather than assuming the wrong thing, you would be wise to re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread where you will detailed guidance telling you exactly what to do.

Did you reply to the LBC earlier?

Hop24 wrote: »

https://ibb.co/h0zeuc
https://ibb.co/gN5V0H

Coupon-mad

If i'm honest and with all the info I have read about CEL, i didnt expect it to go this far.

We did. Now is the time where you will beat this scam. Hooray!

Not wanting a CCJ to be attached to the registetred keeper, its getting more likely that we have to pay.

Hahaha! Certainly NOT.

Every CEL case is discontinued when well defended; a child could copy a defence from here and win v CEL. No hearing, no CCJ, no risk, no money to pay.

richard_lane

Hi sorry to jump in. Can someone tell me how to find the newbies stick thread please. I defended court proceddings in the past but I understand things have changed a little

Coupon-mad

You have just posted UNDER my signature that tells you...!